00:00:04:03 - 00:00:08:02
Unknown
when we can manage our emotions, when we understand,
00:00:08:02 - 00:00:15:19
Unknown
the interplay between our thoughts, emotions and the world around us, then we really have like the tools and skills that we need to to manage the rest of
00:00:15:19 - 00:00:19:03
Unknown
to live a healthy life, to have great relationships, to
00:00:19:03 - 00:00:20:13
Unknown
achieve bigger goals.
00:00:20:13 - 00:00:23:13
Unknown
I am really a proponent of looking beyond
00:00:23:13 - 00:00:27:06
Unknown
health and wellness as beyond just the absence of illness.
00:00:27:06 - 00:00:27:18
Unknown
Right.
00:00:27:18 - 00:00:29:09
Unknown
You know, we all certainly,
00:00:29:09 - 00:00:31:07
Unknown
to be be without any kind of,
00:00:31:07 - 00:00:36:04
Unknown
medical illness if we can can help it or at least manage to treat it as best as we can.
00:00:36:04 - 00:00:39:05
Unknown
But I think there's another another layer to it where
00:00:39:05 - 00:00:47:20
Unknown
after kind of achieving baseline health that we are actually intentionally trying to thrive in multiple areas of our of our lives.
00:00:47:20 - 00:00:49:13
Unknown
And I think when we do that,
00:00:49:13 - 00:00:51:02
Unknown
know, our health, our health follow suit.
00:00:51:17 - 00:01:28:20
Unknown
Hello, everyone. I'm so happy to be here for this new episode. Today we're talking about emotional wellness, which is one of our main pillars that we talk about and something that I think is absolutely massive. So I am so excited to dig into this today and really excited for our guest. I have with me Dr. Jeanie Lawrence, and Dr. Lawrence is a psychiatrist and psychotherapist and offers a coaching program and really is sort of correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Lawrence, but you're really addressing emotional wellness from the every angle, every
00:01:28:20 - 00:01:39:21
Unknown
maybe let's start first. Will you tell us a little bit about your background and what you do? Yeah, thank you for the introduction and for having me. First of all, I'm really excited to have the conversation
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Unknown
like you said, I'm a board certified psychiatrist.
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Unknown
I'm also a psychotherapist, and I have a coaching practice as well for women's physicians specifically and
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Unknown
aim with all of that is
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Unknown
really break down barriers between women physicians and the support that I think we need and deserve
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Unknown
live lives that are not only successful on the outside, but also feel amazing on the inside.
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Unknown
I you asked a bit about my background.
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Unknown
I went to medical school in South Carolina at the at the Medical University of South Carolina. I did my residency training at UNC Chapel Hill. I've sought additional certification in psychotherapy after residency training, and here I am with a new private practice and ready. And
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Unknown
happy to serve my community, which is women physicians.
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Unknown
I really got started on this path after just kind of noticing
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Unknown
alarming trends.
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Unknown
We know that physicians suffer from
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Unknown
of suicide that are a lot higher than the general public and women physicians even higher than than male physicians. Some sources cite that women physicians die by suicide at 130%. My goodness. Yeah. At a rate of 130% higher than the general public. And so it's not something that I think is getting enough attention.
00:02:56:01 - 00:03:11:10
Unknown
And I think it really speaks to the culture of silence around mental health and emotional health issues in our community. There's a lot of stigma. There's not a lot of space for us to openly talk about how we're feeling as as women and women who are trying to balance,
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Unknown
professional career in medicine with home life and all that comes with that.
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Unknown
And so
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Unknown
I'm really like on this mission to try to break down those barriers and make support for women really accessible, really approachable.
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Unknown
that's why I like the combination and of of coaching along with my clinical practice.
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Unknown
So absolutely so important especially especially as a female physician. Thank you for that because we do all need it and I think it's a really great way to get started talking
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Unknown
start by saying how like how do you approach emotional wellness in the bigger context of wellness in general? I define wellness in general as living an intentional life.
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Unknown
That's our our best and most meaningful life. So if we think of that from an emotional wellness perspective, how does that contribute to the big picture? Yeah, I really think that emotional health and wellness is health. I think it's the foundation for for everything that we do. And I like your definition. I think it emotional wellness is being intentional about
00:04:17:23 - 00:04:19:03
Unknown
the way we
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Unknown
think and live.
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Unknown
I think that
00:04:21:21 - 00:04:25:12
Unknown
when we can manage our emotions, when we understand,
00:04:25:12 - 00:04:33:06
Unknown
know, the interplay between our thoughts, emotions and the world around us, then we really have like the tools and skills that we need to to manage the rest of
00:04:33:06 - 00:04:36:21
Unknown
to live a healthy life, to have great relationships, to
00:04:36:21 - 00:04:38:11
Unknown
achieve bigger goals.
00:04:38:11 - 00:04:41:06
Unknown
I am really a proponent of looking beyond
00:04:41:06 - 00:04:45:00
Unknown
health and wellness as beyond just the absence of illness.
00:04:45:00 - 00:04:45:15
Unknown
Right.
00:04:45:15 - 00:04:46:23
Unknown
You know, we all certainly,
00:04:46:23 - 00:04:49:02
Unknown
want to be be without any kind of,
00:04:49:02 - 00:04:54:05
Unknown
you know, medical illness if we can can help it or at least manage to treat it as best as we can.
00:04:54:05 - 00:04:57:09
Unknown
But I think there's another another layer to it where
00:04:57:09 - 00:05:05:24
Unknown
after kind of achieving baseline health that we are actually intentionally trying to thrive in multiple areas of our of our lives.
00:05:05:24 - 00:05:07:15
Unknown
And I think when we do that,
00:05:07:15 - 00:05:19:13
Unknown
you know, our health, our health follow suit. So absolutely, absolutely. We work on ourselves first our our inner selves and the whole world sort of, I feel like opens up to us at that point. I love that.
00:05:19:13 - 00:05:31:05
Unknown
So let's I'm going to dig right in here because I work I have worked with women for a long time and I've talked to a lot of women, and I feel like there are a couple of big issues that tend to come up.
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Unknown
And one of those that I feel like really gets in the way of our emotional well-being is this idea of perfectionism. So I think, I don't know women more than men. I don't really know very much about men, so I can't really comment on in the general population. But in women in general, I think that we hold ourselves to the standard of perfection.
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Unknown
And it can be really difficult for women who cling to this idea of perfectionism to to let go of some of these
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Unknown
thought principles, to rather embrace some of these principles, because it doesn't seem to mesh with where they're coming from, from I have to be perfect. Can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, I think perfectionism is, like you said, one of those things that a lot of women relate to,
00:06:18:03 - 00:06:23:23
Unknown
especially, you know, high achieving professional women, women physicians, probably all of us
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Unknown
kind of are ingrained with this idea and sense that, like you said, things have to be perfect.
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Unknown
And I think when, you know, speaking for myself, I think as a younger person,
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Unknown
perfectionism
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Unknown
was kind of like this celebrated thing. I don't know if,
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Unknown
you know, maybe I'm aging myself and talking about like a time when,
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Unknown
you know, perfectionism was really celebrated. But I think I certainly grew up in a in an environment where
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Unknown
making perfect grades and being on perfect behavior, etc., was something that was expected
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Unknown
and celebrated.
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Unknown
And I think
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Unknown
when we
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Unknown
then go into a certain careers like medicine, for example,
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Unknown
in any kind of professional career,
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Unknown
perfectionism can then become the standard. You know, it's expected. And that to a certain extent, you know, certainly when you're dealing with human life there, we have to, you know, be on our A-game with with our work. But
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Unknown
it becomes a part of who we are.
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Unknown
And we lose touch with the fact that actually,
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Unknown
as you know, as high achieving or whatever as we might be, we're actually just human beings. And human beings make make mistakes.
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Unknown
Human beings are not perfect. And
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Unknown
I think with time
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Unknown
trying to chase down a
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Unknown
chase down perfection,
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Unknown
which of course is an unattainable ideal, it's easy to see how that can lead to
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Unknown
a lot of negative self-image when we fail to reach that ideal.
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Unknown
And so I think at a certain point we have to kind of
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Unknown
look at where that comes from and then start taking some steps to
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Unknown
disentangle our identity as a person from this ideal that that we need to to be perfect.
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Unknown
I think without disentangling the two, we kind of set ourselves up for just constant,
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Unknown
you know, self-deprecation and feeling badly about ourselves when things go wrong, as they of course will, because this is a human life.
00:08:13:16 - 00:08:35:01
Unknown
So yeah, absolutely. I love that idea of disentanglement because that is exactly what happens is I think when we strive for perfectionism and I am I, I would say I'm a recovering perfectionist in some ways, but when we when we cling to the idea of perfectionism, I think there can be some misunderstanding that that
00:08:35:01 - 00:08:37:21
Unknown
we shouldn't strive. Then we should just let it all go.
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Unknown
And that's not true either. That that would be the other end of the coin, right? I think it's okay to strive, and I think it's okay to want things to be really great and to be even to want them to be perfect would be okay. But I think where it becomes a problem is we do attach our worth to not hitting that perfection and then we're guaranteeing ourselves to fail.
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Unknown
And so it's exactly what you said to disentangle that and say, okay, I am striving for this. I want this really great thing in my life and I'm going to work really hard to have it be as good as possible. But even if I don't achieve that, when I don't achieve that, I still have value and I still have work.
00:09:18:03 - 00:09:22:10
Unknown
Is that how how do you help someone kind of cross that bridge to say,
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Unknown
But I still want it to be perfect and I still feel like I'm not as good of a person if I didn't do it perfectly. Yeah, it takes some work.
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Unknown
I think therapy can be very helpful with that because it's a place where
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Unknown
you can kind of safely explore
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Unknown
where that's coming from.
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Unknown
You know, like I alluded to earlier,
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Unknown
I think a lot of us are getting these messages even from childhood about
00:09:46:16 - 00:09:51:21
Unknown
our value being tied to how well we do things and how perfectly we we do things.
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Unknown
And it may be something that you don't recognize. You don't recognize that connection
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Unknown
as and as an adult. And so I think working with somebody to
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Unknown
uncover where that's coming from can be a good first step.
00:10:02:18 - 00:10:05:02
Unknown
if it's causing a problem in your in your life now.
00:10:05:02 - 00:10:07:04
Unknown
But, you know, looking forward,
00:10:07:04 - 00:10:07:22
Unknown
when you have
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Unknown
belief system around perfectionism that's
00:10:10:08 - 00:10:12:21
Unknown
impacting the way that you're interacting with the world
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Unknown
doing things,
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Unknown
it's really going to require a shift
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Unknown
your belief around your self-worth, right? It's really going to
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Unknown
require that
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Unknown
you understand that you are, as a human being, have intrinsic value.
00:10:24:14 - 00:10:29:21
Unknown
And that can take some work, that can take some time because that's not the message we always get.
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Unknown
love what you said earlier, that you feel like a recovering perfectionist because
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Unknown
I totally
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Unknown
I feel the same way.
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Unknown
a new thought that I had to adopt that has been helpful.
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Unknown
You were talking about striving. And I agree that, you know, having goals gives us purpose, gives us direction. There's nothing wrong with striving to achieve or accomplish something. But I no longer
00:10:50:23 - 00:10:54:05
Unknown
am seeking to be perfect. I'm trying to be excellent.
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Unknown
And that's something,
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Unknown
I learned from from my business coach. But it's essentially our our goal is not to be perfect.
00:11:00:13 - 00:11:02:22
Unknown
It's to be excellent. And excellent is defined as
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Unknown
doing the best we can with what we have right now. And I think that's an attainable
00:11:07:14 - 00:11:09:07
Unknown
I think that's an attainable goal
00:11:09:07 - 00:11:12:10
Unknown
and something that we don't have to necessarily
00:11:12:10 - 00:11:17:22
Unknown
attach to our worth either, which is doing the best that we can with what we have right now. So that
00:11:17:22 - 00:11:21:03
Unknown
yeah, I love that because perfectionism is so rigid.
00:11:21:05 - 00:11:44:22
Unknown
If we say it has to be perfect, it's so rigid and it can only mean one thing, like it can only mean flawless. But if you say excellence, you can, you can. It's so much more fluid. It's so much more you get to interpret that like, is that the best you had? Did you show up and provide some excellent service or excellent do the work in an excellent fashion and and you can be happy with that and feel comfortable with that.
00:11:44:22 - 00:12:09:04
Unknown
I love that. Absolutely. Well, so that Segways really nicely into this idea of self-worth. So one of the things I talk about a lot in wellness coaching is self-compassion and self-love and how it really is at the root of it. All right. It's if you can't give yourself space to love yourself, then it's really hard to change your thought process to to do anything else.
00:12:09:07 - 00:12:19:21
Unknown
Because if you don't love yourself, if you don't think you're worth saving, how would you even build a structure of wellness? How would you lose weight? If you don't value yourself? How would you
00:12:19:21 - 00:12:25:21
Unknown
give yourself the nutrients that you need If you don't value yourself? How do you take good care of your kids if you don't value yourself?
00:12:25:23 - 00:12:42:17
Unknown
So how how do you approach women who really come to you saying, I'm not worth it, I'm not worthy? I know there's lots of people who are, and I know that those people should have compassion for this, not for themselves. But I. I don't have any worse. I'm not worth it. Yeah,
00:12:42:17 - 00:12:50:22
Unknown
that's a tough situation. It breaks my heart when when I see folks come to me with that, with that belief system, because
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Unknown
you can imagine there's a lot of pain
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Unknown
that comes along with the thought that I'm not worth it and I'm not worthy.
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Unknown
You know, my process is to first listen and to be there and share that space with them. Non-judgmental. I don't think it
00:13:04:13 - 00:13:07:12
Unknown
helps, you know, in the beginning to try to
00:13:07:12 - 00:13:13:03
Unknown
fight that thought, you know, that it's a deep seated core belief that has been fed probably
00:13:13:03 - 00:13:15:05
Unknown
for a really long time. And so
00:13:15:05 - 00:13:21:00
Unknown
trying to put myself into their shoes and help them see that it's safe to feel that way for now
00:13:21:00 - 00:13:22:13
Unknown
is a good first step.
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Unknown
Then we kind of move into deciding like, is this something I want to even change?
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Unknown
So I know it sounds kind of counterintuitive, but
00:13:32:21 - 00:13:35:11
Unknown
when folks come to me with a certain
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Unknown
belief that is is painful or a situation that's painful, whatever it is,
00:13:39:06 - 00:13:46:19
Unknown
there's a it might seem obvious that they want to change, but there's actually good reasons that people feel the way that they do.
00:13:46:21 - 00:13:50:15
Unknown
And so I like to to spend some time looking at,
00:13:50:15 - 00:13:52:07
Unknown
why they feel unworthy
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Unknown
and what benefit that that feeling or that vibe
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Unknown
is providing for them. A lot of times,
00:13:57:22 - 00:14:03:02
Unknown
you know, it points to important experiences in their life and then sometimes they can point to
00:14:03:02 - 00:14:06:13
Unknown
what they value. And so kind of teasing that apart
00:14:06:13 - 00:14:08:03
Unknown
and pointing out the
00:14:08:03 - 00:14:14:03
Unknown
the values and the good things that we can see and the way that they're thinking now can make it easier to
00:14:14:03 - 00:14:17:18
Unknown
separate from those things down the road if they if they want to.
00:14:17:19 - 00:14:24:03
Unknown
It's really about starting from a place of self-acceptance and self-compassion. If I explain that in a in a clear enough way,
00:14:24:03 - 00:14:28:14
Unknown
and then from there we can do work. So I hope that I hope that made sense.
00:14:28:14 - 00:14:56:22
Unknown
totally. Okay. Yeah. No, I totally get it. And I loved what you said because the idea of just first establishing what do we want and why we're feeling certain ways is hugely important because I think that, number one, you said several things in there that I that I want to maybe generalize the concept that this isn't just people who come in saying I have no self-worth, but anyone who comes in saying I'm in pain, I'm hurting,
00:14:56:22 - 00:15:17:09
Unknown
I'm sad, there's something here that's that's feeling oppressive to me. I think that first you didn't just what you said, which is you said that that must hurt. That must be really painful for you and put a label on it and and validated that emotional experience. But then moving through to say, what do you want? Do you want to feel better?
00:15:17:15 - 00:15:35:14
Unknown
Because if you don't, no one can make you. And that's true for, I think, little things that we're all dealing with too emotionally. You know, if I get angry at the driver next to me and flip them off, is that what you'd like to do? Okay, then, great. Stay with it. If it's serving you well, then go for it.
00:15:35:16 - 00:15:51:24
Unknown
But if that's not who you want to be, then then let's talk about that. And we get to make these little judgment calls all day, every day with our life decisions and with our life interactions. Is this who you want to be? And if not, I can help you. I can help you with the thought work and you dig in there.
00:15:51:24 - 00:16:00:15
Unknown
But if you don't want to be anyone different, then embrace that right and let it go. So I love I love what you had to say. I think that's really important
00:16:00:15 - 00:16:15:02
Unknown
Now, if we're moving forward. One of the things that I love that you talked about was the idea of pain. And someone comes in and says, I'm hurting or something is causing me to feel angry or to feel pain or whatever.
00:16:15:04 - 00:16:48:08
Unknown
And I think that that the idea of pain can be or really any emotion can be difficult to deal with. And what I mean by that is we feel an emotion and how do we process it? I think we can suppress it or say like, oh, don't feel that way. You shouldn't feel that way. Like, feel happy, don't feel sad, like we can suppress or we can cling on to it and we can make that part of who we are so that we're making decisions based on that emotion of anger or sadness or hurt and pain.
00:16:48:10 - 00:17:04:20
Unknown
What's the middle ground there? How how does someone feel an emotion and give credit to that emotion and and let that emotion be part of them so they're not suppressing it, but then let it move all the way through them. Do you have any thoughts on that? I think it's a good question
00:17:04:20 - 00:17:08:13
Unknown
for sure. I think it it starts with,
00:17:08:13 - 00:17:13:00
Unknown
putting a label on on our emotions and understanding them for what they are.
00:17:13:00 - 00:17:14:16
Unknown
So we kind of
00:17:14:16 - 00:17:20:01
Unknown
conceptualize emotions sometimes as in pain, sometimes as this
00:17:20:01 - 00:17:21:06
Unknown
thing that
00:17:21:06 - 00:17:24:02
Unknown
is so aversive that we have to
00:17:24:02 - 00:17:24:24
Unknown
flee from it.
00:17:24:24 - 00:17:35:02
Unknown
You know, we either have to suppress, we have to suppress that We have to do something with it in that moment or we have to obey it. If it's like an emotion, like anger or something like that,
00:17:35:02 - 00:17:36:09
Unknown
in reality,
00:17:36:09 - 00:17:38:24
Unknown
emotion, I mean, they're valid, they're important,
00:17:38:24 - 00:17:41:15
Unknown
they're ours, they're part of our human experience.
00:17:41:15 - 00:17:42:06
Unknown
But
00:17:42:06 - 00:17:53:21
Unknown
they don't have to necessarily be the thing that controls our lives. So I like to take the power. I like to help people take the power out of a strong emotion sometimes. And
00:17:53:21 - 00:17:55:05
Unknown
that process starts with
00:17:55:05 - 00:17:56:09
Unknown
identifying,
00:17:56:09 - 00:17:59:05
Unknown
putting a label to it, right? Like, this is how I'm feeling,
00:17:59:05 - 00:18:03:15
Unknown
understanding what that that feeling is, and then identifying how it feels in the body,
00:18:03:15 - 00:18:04:14
Unknown
So if it's
00:18:04:14 - 00:18:09:15
Unknown
if it is pain, if it is like heartbreak or something like that, like imagining
00:18:09:15 - 00:18:14:19
Unknown
how it feels in very concrete terms and where it feel where you feel it in your in your body,
00:18:14:19 - 00:18:17:09
Unknown
Writing that down sometimes can take some of the
00:18:17:09 - 00:18:21:01
Unknown
it it knowledge is it but it takes some of the power away from it.
00:18:21:01 - 00:18:28:14
Unknown
Like this is a this is a sting in my chest. This is a you know a tickle in my stomach and and writing that down
00:18:28:14 - 00:18:32:06
Unknown
again can give it some perspective. It's not this force that,
00:18:32:06 - 00:18:36:10
Unknown
has to crush us necessarily. I mean, a lot of it knowledge that
00:18:36:10 - 00:18:43:11
Unknown
we give it words and then we take away a little bit of it of its power over us, and then we can decide what to do with it.
00:18:43:11 - 00:18:46:24
Unknown
we can let it pass. We can do some thought work to
00:18:46:24 - 00:18:51:23
Unknown
reduce it. You know, we can accept it and keep it moving so that it doesn't
00:18:51:23 - 00:18:55:24
Unknown
necessarily dictate how we live our lives. We have some choices then
00:18:55:24 - 00:18:58:17
Unknown
when it's not this thing that we are powerless to.
00:18:58:17 - 00:19:02:06
Unknown
Well, then I think labeling it is so important because then we can decide.
00:19:02:11 - 00:19:28:19
Unknown
We don't say I am pain or I am. We do say I am sad, but that that doesn't help us very much. I think by labeling it and saying I am feeling sadness, I am feeling pain, I am feeling anger. Well, okay, I feel lots of things. There's lots of different parts to me and I think it gives our brain that just quick second to say, Oh, wait, you mean this isn't the whole of who you are?
00:19:28:19 - 00:19:45:17
Unknown
Oh, okay, cool. I can deal with that. So to, to label it and I love the idea of writing it out. I think there's something about that kinetic motion to of actually forcing yourself to write it down. I think that does help. It kind of moves through us. And you also mentioned then we can decide what to do with it.
00:19:45:17 - 00:20:07:22
Unknown
So this is something that has come up with my coaching is because people will say like, well, I can't just let the emotion go. Well, you can you can. You get to decide what to do with it. And I think sometimes we feel like we have to suffer. We have to kind of keep these emotions in us, but we don't we can choose to let them go or we can choose to do something.
00:20:07:22 - 00:20:24:16
Unknown
And sometimes if something makes us angry, we choose to stand up and say, I'm not going to let you treat me like that. And sometimes if something makes us angry, we decide, I don't care. I'm just going to let that one go because I'd rather be happy and I'd rather go on my merry way and do whatever I had planned for today.
00:20:24:18 - 00:20:42:21
Unknown
Yeah, but we have to separate it from ourselves first so that we can even have a chance to think about what to do with it. Yep. Yeah, I agree 100% about what you said there. Making that separation between us as a person and how we're feeling. And the same goes for our thoughts to right
00:20:42:21 - 00:20:44:15
Unknown
as a person, the thoughts that we think.
00:20:44:15 - 00:20:53:04
Unknown
We talked about it earlier and the the perfectionism and the failures that we're inevitably going to have and then who we are as a person. There has to be this
00:20:53:04 - 00:20:57:11
Unknown
this understanding that we are not our thoughts or feelings or the things that
00:20:57:11 - 00:21:01:24
Unknown
that happened to us. We are, you know, who we are and we're whole and we're lovable.
00:21:02:01 - 00:21:04:22
Unknown
And that's okay and that's okay. Yeah,
00:21:04:22 - 00:21:22:04
Unknown
where do we even start? If you're saying you're meeting with someone brand new and they're saying, I want to develop my emotional wellness, I want to get a little more. Well, now this is oversimplified because I think from my perspective, it's a big part of meeting someone where they're at and and moving forward from there.
00:21:22:04 - 00:21:23:13
Unknown
But do you have
00:21:23:13 - 00:21:44:10
Unknown
thoughts about things that are pretty generalizable, having met with so many patients over the years, things that sort of we all need to start doing? I think labeling the emotions is a huge one. You know, get those emotions out of you, separate yourself, allow yourself to respond how you want. Are there other general principles that you think of that are sort of those what you would say are emotional wellness?
00:21:44:12 - 00:21:47:14
Unknown
Big, big points? Yes.
00:21:47:14 - 00:22:00:13
Unknown
Let's see. So you kind of asked two questions, it sounded like about my, you know, what I might do with somebody who is coming to me initially asking for some help with their wellness and just, you know, general principles.
00:22:00:13 - 00:22:02:15
Unknown
So I usually would start
00:22:02:15 - 00:22:07:13
Unknown
I start with a through conversation, of course, to kind of tease that all of that out.
00:22:07:13 - 00:22:21:13
Unknown
You know, we feel the way we feel. We're kind of living our lives and having our experiences and sometimes being the person in our being ourselves and being in our situations and in our lives and feelings. It's hard to see objectively,
00:22:21:13 - 00:22:26:08
Unknown
what's going on. And so I think a conversation with an objective outside person can be helpful
00:22:26:08 - 00:22:32:06
Unknown
to kind of to kind of see to give some perspective, I guess, to to what we're experiencing.
00:22:32:06 - 00:22:35:17
Unknown
But your general wellness principles, I love the idea of
00:22:35:17 - 00:22:40:23
Unknown
growing understanding of our thoughts and their ties to our emotions, for sure. I think that really is
00:22:40:23 - 00:22:43:20
Unknown
the starting point and the key to to it all.
00:22:43:20 - 00:22:49:21
Unknown
I really got a little bit the idea of like helping your thoughts, how your thoughts are related to emotions.
00:22:49:21 - 00:23:06:15
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. So I think most I think most of us, I think before we get some kind of training around this are living our lives on an on autopilot, right? Like our lives are happening to us. We don't have control over the things that that happen to us. And
00:23:06:15 - 00:23:09:03
Unknown
that's, that's just how we, how we see the world.
00:23:09:03 - 00:23:15:15
Unknown
Unfortunately, that that's kind of a disempowering perspective. And in reality,
00:23:15:15 - 00:23:21:02
Unknown
even though there are things that happen outside of us that we certainly can't control, we do have
00:23:21:02 - 00:23:40:01
Unknown
between there's a space between the things that happen in our emotional reaction to it, our thoughts and our thoughts are where we can, you know, exercise some agency. And I think when you understand that connection that it's not just the events of our lives that cause our results in our emotions, but it's really the way we think about it,
00:23:40:01 - 00:23:41:04
Unknown
then you have some power.
00:23:41:04 - 00:23:55:15
Unknown
Now you have something that you can do now, you can start to dictate your own results in your own own life. And that feels that can feel really, really good. So that's what I meant by that. I think a lot of people don't
00:23:55:15 - 00:23:58:10
Unknown
necessarily understand that, and I think
00:23:58:10 - 00:24:03:17
Unknown
feeling powerless in our situations is what causes a lot of emotional suffering.
00:24:03:21 - 00:24:07:24
Unknown
And so taking back that power by understanding that link
00:24:07:24 - 00:24:10:01
Unknown
I think is the jump off for sure.
00:24:10:01 - 00:24:13:07
Unknown
You know, beyond that, I mean, I talk a lot about
00:24:13:07 - 00:24:18:04
Unknown
lifestyle and how that can impact our emotional wellness as well.
00:24:18:04 - 00:24:18:22
Unknown
And,
00:24:18:22 - 00:24:27:22
Unknown
you know, things like getting seven or 8 hours of sleep a night and following a reasonably healthy diet and avoiding substances like alcohol and tobacco and
00:24:27:22 - 00:24:33:04
Unknown
exercising on a regular basis seem mundane or the things that we hear all the time.
00:24:33:08 - 00:24:41:22
Unknown
But when those things aren't in place, our our brains and bodies obviously aren't functioning at their peak level and we don't have the capacity to access that.
00:24:41:22 - 00:24:46:00
Unknown
That thought process that I just talked about. And we're less able to kind of
00:24:46:00 - 00:24:47:12
Unknown
manage and exert power
00:24:47:12 - 00:24:50:06
Unknown
in our in our lives. So lifestyle,
00:24:50:06 - 00:24:54:07
Unknown
understanding, thoughts and emotions are two big parts.
00:24:54:09 - 00:24:55:18
Unknown
I guess third would be
00:24:55:18 - 00:25:14:00
Unknown
third and fourth might be relationships and then values and and things like that. I think our relationships are such a huge, integral part of our experience as human beings. And, you know, you don't have to have tons of friends and family, but you do we do need to have
00:25:14:00 - 00:25:16:23
Unknown
a few supportive relationships. I mean,
00:25:16:23 - 00:25:21:04
Unknown
and so I think learning tools and skills to
00:25:21:04 - 00:25:34:07
Unknown
not only socially connect with other people, but also the tools and skills that you need to repair when there is conflict, the inevitable conflict that's going to come in those close relationships is a really important pillar to
00:25:34:07 - 00:25:35:15
Unknown
emotional wellness.
00:25:35:21 - 00:25:44:24
Unknown
It again gives you back some power because you can be in relationship with someone, experience the ups and downs and know that it's not going to be
00:25:44:24 - 00:25:48:24
Unknown
it's not going to all come crashing down because you've got you've got those skills.
00:25:48:24 - 00:25:52:08
Unknown
values and spirituality I think are really important as guiding principles.
00:25:52:08 - 00:25:54:05
Unknown
And I think being in touch with those things
00:25:54:05 - 00:26:08:20
Unknown
can be huge motivators when we're doing the work to to feel better and can make sure that we are in alignment so that as we strive for goals, emotional wellness, goals and whatever goals we have, we're
00:26:08:20 - 00:26:13:24
Unknown
not burning ourselves out in the process and we're not getting to the finish line feeling unsettled.
00:26:13:24 - 00:26:32:12
Unknown
We're getting to the finish line and feeling like, you know, I've done something that I'm really proud of and that aligns with who I really am on the inside. So yeah, man, such good things in there. I think that last one, I mean, if you don't know where you're going, then how do you, how do you create an action plan that gets you to where you're going and then you're just creating random, random things together.
00:26:32:12 - 00:26:59:04
Unknown
So that value system is something that that is so important and easy. Honestly, easy to kind of forget about. Because like you said earlier, we're all busy. Like we're all just going with the flow. Most of us are are living reactively. So things happen to us and we just go with it. But to take that power back enough to say, I want to do things differently, like that's so doable, but you set the value system first so that you know even what you're trying to do.
00:26:59:08 - 00:27:01:13
Unknown
So yeah, huge things.
00:27:01:13 - 00:27:04:12
Unknown
So one of the thing I wanted to talk about is
00:27:04:12 - 00:27:17:11
Unknown
when you talk about thoughts, I think that a lot of one of the things that a lot of people struggle with, with changing their thoughts, you know, so we we educate women and we say you have control here. You don't have to just react all the time.
00:27:17:11 - 00:27:29:01
Unknown
Like you can create space between your your thoughts and then decide where you want to take them. And once women know that, I think sometimes it's still so hard to turn off our brains. So we have these
00:27:29:01 - 00:27:39:11
Unknown
thoughts that are going nonstop, these negative thoughts that are there all the time. What is something that we can do to help when the negative thoughts just come so automatically?
00:27:39:13 - 00:27:42:12
Unknown
Yeah, I think first is,
00:27:42:12 - 00:27:48:11
Unknown
understanding that human brains have human thoughts and sometimes are going to be negative, I think is
00:27:48:11 - 00:28:01:22
Unknown
seems you know, obvious but it's it's not like sometimes I think we beat ourselves up basically when we start experiencing negative thoughts because we think they're not supposed to be there when in reality,
00:28:01:22 - 00:28:04:11
Unknown
we are going to have negative thoughts because we're we're human beings.
00:28:04:11 - 00:28:08:08
Unknown
So understanding that first, like there's nothing wrong with you because you're having
00:28:08:08 - 00:28:13:01
Unknown
negative thought. That being said, I mean, sometimes it can get exhausting, right? Like
00:28:13:01 - 00:28:24:24
Unknown
having them and then fighting them. And I think that the exhaustion comes with the resistance to them. Sometimes Right. And again, that judgment that there's something wrong or bad about me for having them.
00:28:24:24 - 00:28:25:09
Unknown
So
00:28:25:09 - 00:28:29:00
Unknown
dropping that resistance can help to allow them kind of to pass
00:28:29:00 - 00:28:30:08
Unknown
as they do
00:28:30:08 - 00:28:33:09
Unknown
without wearing ourselves out and beating ourselves up about it.
00:28:33:09 - 00:28:42:17
Unknown
to go a step further, you know, I take your point that, you know, sometimes we want to do something about it right? Don't want to have negative thoughts all day, every day.
00:28:42:19 - 00:28:47:14
Unknown
I think things like developing a mindfulness practice can be extremely helpful
00:28:47:14 - 00:28:50:22
Unknown
in managing thoughts and
00:28:50:22 - 00:28:55:22
Unknown
blood, allowing them to pass with that through us without judgment so that they're not causing the
00:28:55:22 - 00:28:59:11
Unknown
stress and causing us to to feel poorly. So
00:28:59:11 - 00:29:07:12
Unknown
that's one of my my go to ways is is like a mindful meditation or whatever way you want to add mindfulness into your daily life.
00:29:07:12 - 00:29:08:04
Unknown
It just
00:29:08:04 - 00:29:10:07
Unknown
can slow those thoughts down, but also
00:29:10:07 - 00:29:25:12
Unknown
help us pass the judgment part of it so that they're less distressing, which I think is really important. Yeah, I love that you say that it's it's okay to have some negative thoughts because it is so funny and example of my perfectionism is like, Oh, okay, so I'm not supposed to have negative thoughts.
00:29:25:14 - 00:29:44:19
Unknown
Okay, I'm going to take notes. You tell me how I get rid of those negative thoughts and then I'll judge myself when I feel like it. So it's sort of creating the same process of, Oh, now I'm having a negative thought about the fact that I'm having negative thoughts and I, oh, I'm never going to make it. So I love that you said first, just accept that your brain is going to you to start wherever it is.
00:29:44:19 - 00:30:04:00
Unknown
It's going to think things. And that doesn't mean that we failed because thoughts come to our brain. I've heard it said, you know, the important part of is learning that we don't have to believe everything that pops into our brain. And I think that's awesome to say, like, Oh, and I guess that. Okay, interesting. I'm going to have other thoughts now.
00:30:04:02 - 00:30:31:08
Unknown
So just, just accepting that is is huge. So I love that. Yeah. Well, you tell us from your perspective, this is something that I connect to negative thoughts, but maybe it's not the perfect connection is this idea of thought distortions. And that may be a term that that a lot of people aren't familiar with. But can you explain those a little bit and how you found that identifying those thought distortions can be helpful to people?
00:30:31:10 - 00:30:48:00
Unknown
This is I know this is going a little bit deep, so we won't go too far down this road, but I do think the principle is hugely important. Yeah. So I thought distortions are cognitive distortions. I first want to start by saying I think it's a little bit of a misnomer because it kind of the word distortion kind of
00:30:48:00 - 00:30:58:07
Unknown
makes people assume that if you experience this, that again, there's something wrong or abnormal about you when in reality, if not, distortions are incredibly common.
00:30:58:07 - 00:31:01:17
Unknown
Every single one of us has them. And it's just
00:31:01:17 - 00:31:07:04
Unknown
the kind of exaggerated way that human beings tend to look at certain situations. And
00:31:07:04 - 00:31:08:01
Unknown
we all
00:31:08:01 - 00:31:17:16
Unknown
we all experience them, we may be more prone to certain categories of them just kind of based on on who we are and our upbringing and things like that.
00:31:17:16 - 00:31:23:22
Unknown
But it's the the way the way that we filter the things that happen in the world in a way that might not
00:31:23:22 - 00:31:24:09
Unknown
be
00:31:24:09 - 00:31:28:18
Unknown
totally real or totally helpful to us, basically.
00:31:28:24 - 00:31:34:24
Unknown
So examples are like catastrophize, for example, if you're the kind of person that,
00:31:34:24 - 00:31:55:07
Unknown
one thing happens and you're immediately thinking of all of the, the worst case scenarios that happen and you go down a rabbit hole, yeah, we'll be on that rabbit hole. Instead of taking a step back and realizing that others worst case scenarios are much less likely, then a better case scenario, then you might be prone to catastrophizing.
00:31:55:07 - 00:31:55:22
Unknown
And I think
00:31:55:22 - 00:31:56:19
Unknown
that's okay.
00:31:56:19 - 00:32:18:06
Unknown
But it is helpful to identify that, to put a label on it, and to to recognize that there are some other ways, some other ways to look and filter the world that might be more more helpful to you. And I mean, that's just one example. There's all or nothing thinking and, you know, fortune telling and predicting the future and all kinds of things that that again, we all do.
00:32:18:08 - 00:32:29:02
Unknown
I think it is helpful, though, to understand the most common ones and to get in the habit of identifying when we are experiencing them because
00:32:29:02 - 00:32:41:13
Unknown
you know, not to make light of them at all. They certainly that those thought distortion distortions can certainly cause us a lot of unnecessary emotional pain. And so that's really the point. And in understanding them that way,
00:32:41:13 - 00:32:48:07
Unknown
have that opportunity to make a different choice, to look at something through a different lens that that serves as a little better.
00:32:48:09 - 00:33:00:00
Unknown
And do people tend to stick with a few thought distortions? Like as we're growing up, do we tend to have one or two or three that are are most typical for us, or are we sort of all over the map?
00:33:00:00 - 00:33:10:06
Unknown
I think that's one thing that kind of differentiates us that we do have like our little set of commonly our go to thought and I really do see that a lot,
00:33:10:06 - 00:33:16:22
Unknown
know, for my anxious folks are kind of always catastrophizing or commonly catastrophizing or whatever the case be.
00:33:16:22 - 00:33:17:22
Unknown
I do think there are
00:33:17:22 - 00:33:26:15
Unknown
people tend to go to the same kinds of distortions, you know, habitually so. And I love talking. I love thinking about that distortions. I
00:33:26:15 - 00:33:45:15
Unknown
suffered from depression when I was younger and going to therapy at that point and learning about these distortions was like a massive eye opener for me because it was the first it was the first time that someone told me you might not be perceiving the world in a completely accurate way.
00:33:45:17 - 00:34:09:15
Unknown
And I was just like, What? What do you mean? You mean I? The way that I see the world is not the way that everyone else sees the world. And this was really mind blowing for me when I was younger, but it's by identifying the ways that we can distort these our view of the world that then we can take back that power and we can say, I don't have to react to that because that's a distorted view.
00:34:09:16 - 00:34:29:03
Unknown
I can react to reality the way that I want to. So I think of an example of, you know, I've, I see examples of this all the time, as I'm sure you do, once you kind of know what they are, you see them everywhere. But I think a lot of people and I don't know which distortion this is, you can tell me the idea of when we read other people's minds.
00:34:29:03 - 00:34:34:11
Unknown
So like I with my husband say, well, he did this and that means all these things about him.
00:34:34:11 - 00:34:48:24
Unknown
So I think if we can recognize that for that example, if we can recognize that we are reading so much into people, that may not be true, that we can then actually say, Oh, what do I know about this person?
00:34:48:24 - 00:35:14:22
Unknown
What what could this mean about this person? And then we take back the power. So it's not a guilt trip. It's not that we should say, like you're seeing through a thought distortion, and you should feel bad about that because you're not giving them the space. The power here is that if we recognize that we're seeing things through a distorted perspective, that we can take those lenses off that we're viewing the world through and be empowered to make decisions along our own set of values.
00:35:14:22 - 00:35:26:06
Unknown
Instead of our distorted perspectives. So, yeah, thank you. I totally agree. I don't think I could say it any better. You asked what that was called, and I call it mind reading or fortune telling. And
00:35:26:06 - 00:35:34:01
Unknown
it does lead to lots of assumptions and then conflict between people that doesn't need to be there. And so, yeah
00:35:34:01 - 00:35:38:12
Unknown
understanding what it is, recognize it in yourself, gives you that power to,
00:35:38:12 - 00:35:42:20
Unknown
feel better and get along and really give people the benefit of the doubt.
00:35:42:20 - 00:35:48:12
Unknown
And I wish we all did it. I wish it was something that was taught in school. I think I think the world would be a little bit
00:35:48:12 - 00:35:56:11
Unknown
calmer, happier place. Absolutely. And to use that example of that distortion a little bit in terms of how it can harm us
00:35:56:11 - 00:36:06:07
Unknown
if we make assumptions about what other people are thinking, then we can think, well, they didn't do that because they don't love me and that causes us pain.
00:36:06:07 - 00:36:20:00
Unknown
Well, what if you're wrong? What if that perspective is distorted? You mean they do love me and they made a mistake like they did something stupid and they still love me? Like that is a way happier way to live life. And
00:36:20:00 - 00:36:33:04
Unknown
if we recognize that we're distorting them, we can do that. Yeah. Now, tell me, is there a reference like, I think that if people want to learn more about distortion, certainly therapy is a great place to explore that.
00:36:33:06 - 00:36:35:03
Unknown
Is there a source that you like,
00:36:35:03 - 00:36:47:11
Unknown
like online or a book that the people can just start to say like, Oh, I wonder what distortions I use because we all use them? Is there a good book that you like or a an online source that kind of can help people see that? Yeah,
00:36:47:11 - 00:36:48:24
Unknown
I will throw out
00:36:48:24 - 00:36:51:22
Unknown
a book called Feeling Good by David Byrne.
00:36:51:22 - 00:36:53:17
Unknown
She's a psychiatrist who
00:36:53:17 - 00:37:00:11
Unknown
developed a specific kind of cognitive behavioral therapy. And so all of his work is based on
00:37:00:11 - 00:37:04:10
Unknown
understanding cognitive distortions. And a lot of the other stuff that we talked about. But
00:37:04:10 - 00:37:06:01
Unknown
any of his books will have,
00:37:06:01 - 00:37:13:08
Unknown
you know, charts and help help you get into them for standing around the the most common kinds of thought distortions.
00:37:13:13 - 00:37:31:22
Unknown
A simple Google search will will do as well cognitive distortions are yeah yeah you know something that is well well defined and talked about a lot all over the internet. So that's awesome. I think that's such a great place for people to start with that work. Is that, is that too intense to start with or is that a reasonable place to start, you think?
00:37:31:22 - 00:37:42:19
Unknown
I think that's I think understanding cognitive distortions is actually, yeah, a good place to start. I think since I've read feeling good and it's not long it's not, it's not like a deep,
00:37:42:19 - 00:37:57:10
Unknown
intense, super intense read like I think it's, it's pretty doable, right? Yeah. Awesome. Well, do you have any other points that you want to make in terms of just if someone comes to you and says emotional wellness, tell me your deepest, darkest thoughts.
00:37:57:16 - 00:38:08:05
Unknown
Not darkest, lightest. I think we covered a lot. I mean, this has been an amazing conversation. I think the most important thing is that
00:38:08:05 - 00:38:18:14
Unknown
if you are looking to improve your emotional wellness, to raise your hand and get the support that you need to do that, I think a lot of times we try to go it alone and,
00:38:18:14 - 00:38:29:02
Unknown
we don't have that objective, supportive, outside person to help us put things into perspective and give the support that we need to actually make strides towards more wellness.
00:38:29:02 - 00:38:30:03
Unknown
And so I think
00:38:30:03 - 00:38:33:00
Unknown
the takeaway is just be being willing to
00:38:33:00 - 00:38:38:20
Unknown
say, I'd like some help with this and willing to partner with somebody on that journey. Yeah.
00:38:38:20 - 00:38:51:05
Unknown
Dr. Lawrence. Thank you so much for being with us. It's been so enjoyable to talk with you. Do you want to share where people can find you, especially those female physicians who may be maybe looking for for some of this coaching?
00:38:51:07 - 00:39:14:00
Unknown
Yeah. So you can find me at my website it's W WW Jeannie Lawrence, M.D. dot com. My name is spelled JPA and I e last name Lawrence LWR and seemed dot com and there you can find all about my clinical services as well as my coaching program and I am happy to help. Oh thank you so much thanks for being here.
00:39:14:02 - 00:39:20:05
Unknown
Thank you so much for having me. This was fun. Thanks. Bye bye. I.
00:39:20:05 - 00:39:32:16
Unknown
That's all for this time. Thanks for listening. And come back next time for another episode. And remember, this information is for education only and not intended to be medical advice.
