0:04
When we're building that relationship with ourselves, and then that is fueling the new habits that we want to create. The more that we stick to those, and the more that we build that relationship with yourself, the more we're going to build self efficacy, which is only going to then fuel our progress more towards our health and wellness goals, or whatever the goals are that you have for yourself.
0:25
Welcome to another episode of uplift for her. We are really excited to have this conversation today. I have a special guest with me. Her name is Alicia Akerson, and she is a health coach that is working with us here at uplift for her. So welcome, Alicia,
0:40
thank you.
0:41
Let's start by having you tell us just a little bit about yourself. Tell us who you are and how you got into health coaching.
0:47
Sure, I'm originally from Utah. I'm from St George. If anyone's familiar with that, that's down south in Utah. Now I live in Salt Lake City. I've lived here for about a decade, and I gosh, I guess I got into health coaching. I started along the path right outside of high school, so I danced for the majority of my young childhood up into high school, and then when I graduated high school, I was just such a negative place within myself and my relationship to my body image and health in general, and at that stage, and, you know, being so young, I felt like I didn't know how to support myself and my health in a positive way. And it was something I recognized, too. So recognizing that that's kind of like what propelled me to get into health coaching. So from there, I went into college to get a degree in exercise physiology or kinesiology, and I found myself just really fascinated with the body, and I got a minor's nutrition, and I just started learning kind of like through school and on my own, just all of this new information about health and nutrition and just all this stuff that you just sometimes don't learn when you're young, and so it just it went on from there, and I ended up getting my master's in exercise physiology and health coaching. It was a dual program, which is really cool. We don't really have a lot of those, but that was at the University of Utah and and that's what brought me up to Salt Lake. And so I did that, and then I started working as an exercise physiologist at a cancer hospital that's local to Salt Lake City. And then from there, I switched over to roles that were purely health coaching. I felt I got a little burnt out with exercise physiologist roles, and I wanted to dive more into the health coaching side of my my education, and really explore that, and it's been something that's really rewarding. So I guess that tangent was a little bit about why I got into health coaching, and then a little bit about myself too, but, but more on myself. Gosh. I mean, I'm someone who enjoys getting outside. I love hiking. I'm very passionate about movement, health coaching and holistic health really is part of who I am in my life, too. So, so yes, I'm I love Pilates, and I'm passionate about weight training, and I'm someone that just loves being low key, but also spending time with family and friends. I'm a big reader, so yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell, and how I got into it.
3:15
I love it, and I'm so glad you shared all of that. I think it's really helpful whenever we're talking to people who are working in health and healthcare, to see that we are all human, and we all bring to this a little bit of our own experience and our own struggles and our own strengths and our own experience and how we conquered all of that. So I'm so glad you shared that. Tell us a little bit more. For those who don't understand, tell us a little more about what health coaching is, and why would someone need a health coach? I think a lot of people don't quite know what that means when you say, have you tried a health coach? Yeah,
3:47
yeah. So health coaching? Well, what a health coach is, is basically somebody who can support you in working towards your health goals. And I would say health coaching can be for anybody. I think who it's really beneficial for are two kind of subgroups of individuals, the people that are working that want to really just, like, level up, like, they're already kind of at the top of their game, and they're like, I really just want to see what I'm made of, and push myself to the limit. We can health coaches can be helpful in kind of directing them with, Okay, well, maybe this is an area we could focus on and improve a little bit. But in the similar vein, those that feel lost, they don't feel like they have support, or they need that additional accountability with where to get started when it comes to working towards the health and wellness goals they have for each other, excuse me, for themselves. That's where health coaches can really help and can really step in, and we can focus on daily habits, daily routines, self limiting, beliefs, motivation, willpower. I mean, anything, and really anything under the sun that that falls within the health and wellness category health coaches cover.
4:55
I love that. I think I I mean, I'm a big fan of health coaching and Coach. In general, and I think it's interesting that we feel like we should be able to fix our health all by ourselves, and some people can. But I don't think there's any shame if people do feel stuck in their health and they need to have that additional support. I think that most people who accomplish really great things in the world have some sort of mentor or health or coaching or instructor, or someone that kind of gets in there and tells them, here are the next steps that are going to make this really successful for you. So I love the idea of people being able to use health coaches to really experience that, that other side of health, yeah, getting to their health goals. Absolutely.
5:36
The more we can build our support team too, and kind of like our network of individuals, like the better off we we all are
5:43
absolutely, absolutely well. So two main sides of health coaching, then one side of health coaching is health information. So you go to a health coach, and they can help you understand, you know, what kinds of foods to eat, and how do we improve our sleep, and how do we move our bodies to get the best, best outcomes? So the first part is sort of just that health information, and then the other half of health coaching is really that accountability and learning how to implement these things in our lives. So talking more about the motivation and the willpower and all of those sides of things, and that's really what I want to focus on today, is that idea of health habits and habit change, and how do we successfully incorporate these, this information that we learn into our lives? Because health information is not at a shortage right now,
6:31
you're so right.
6:32
It is so easy to find health information. It's very difficult to know how to make sense of health information. It can be difficult to fact check information. But I think even more so than both of those things, is like, okay, great. I've read that, I've heard that. I know that's true, but how do I actually do that? One of the biggest things I hear from my patients, after I give them health information, I'll ask them, you know, does that make sense? Is this what you want to do? And they'll say, Yes, I just need to do it. I just need to do it. I just need to find the willpower and make it happen. And I think we all find that that doesn't often work very well. Sometimes it will. Some people can just muscle through it. So let's start there and say, Tell me about your thoughts about willpower, and I just need to do it. When someone is trying to get started with changing habits,
7:23
I think that the the health industry around that mindset has done everyone such a disservice, and it makes me it makes me sad when I hear people say, like, I just need willpower. I just need to, kind of, like, muster my way through it, trudge through it, because that's not the case. We don't have to approach our health and wellness goals that way. And I understand why people think that, because it's just a lot of people don't, don't know the tools, or maybe they they don't quite understand, like, just what those next steps need to be to help get them to where they are. And it's really just about like, coming up with a vision for yourself of what you want, what you're working towards, which I know, what we can dive more into, but then just creating the small steps to get you there. And if you're someone who is kind of feeling lost, then that's where, again, a health coach can be really great for someone like that, because they can give you the first steps. They can kind of guide you along that way of like, this is how you can get started. And they can hold, they can be that accountability person for you to to, to rely on. In that sense,
8:34
I think when people do feel like the only way forward is to use more will to say, like, I just need more willpower. Then if, if that's the only way forward, and you don't get forward, then that just means, I think the way people interpret it is, I failed. I failed again. This time, though, this time, I'm gonna willpower my way through it. I failed again, and it creates this sort of spin cycle of guilt and shame and like, Ah, why can't I just get it done. Why can't I just do the things that I know I need to do? And I'm with you, I think, because it's not just about willpower. It's about understanding, and it's about baby steps, and it's about accountability, and it's about so much more. Another thing that I hear from a lot of patients is either I feel stuck or I just need to find the motivation, right? Like I, if I, if I just had the motivation, then I would do it. What are your thoughts about those when we hear patients or clients say those things,
9:29
yeah, the motivation, the the just needing to find the motivation is a is something I hear quite often, and the reality of it, for the majority of people is that you're not going to just find the motivation. A common phrase, kind of in this realm, is motivation follows action, and action doesn't necessarily have to be, let's say like waking up and going for a run that day. That doesn't necessarily have to be the action step you take. Action can look like thinking to yourself in the morning for one minute, like, what? Do I want to work towards? What kind of person do I want to become like that visualization component that I really love, that can be your action step. That's it, that can be that simple. And just from taking that moment with yourself to pause and like, hold that vision, create that vision, that's where the motivation can then start to come in and and I think that's something that people don't don't realize to they don't realize that, like when we're talking about small steps to take, it can truly be that small, and that's where people can get, kind of get hung up to, and then that's where the self criticism comes into play, like you just mentioned, which of course, just perpetuates this, the negative cycle that people can get in. So starting small with actionable steps that, again, are tiny, very tiny. That's where the motivation can then arise from. I'm
10:49
going to emphasize that. I think what you just said is that motivation comes after and that is not what we expect, right? I think some of us, when we're in a certain place on our health journey, we say, Okay, I'm going to wake up tomorrow and go for a run, and then we wake up tomorrow and we don't feel like going for a run, and we feel like, Oh, I'm a failure. Why don't I feel like going for a run? Why would you feel like going for a run? Like, where would that come from? And so there is that, that step before having the motivation that can be just forcing yourself to go for a run, right? I mean, that's one way, but other ways are, we're going to dig into them a little bit. Are backing up and finding the steps that create a little more motivation, and then you take another step and a little more motivation, and then suddenly you're getting up and going for a run. Is that right? Did I get it right?
11:39
You got it right? And, okay, this is kind of a side thought, but, but I think that's another, another point as to why health coaches or or even if it's like an accountability partner that you bring on board with yourself, a friend or a family member can be so helpful is if you really are someone that's feeling like you're in that stuck spot, you're not stuck, and we can help you move forward. There are steps you can take, and I know for myself personally, I have felt in that stuck spot at certain points in my life. And if, if you're not in a space and a headspace where you're feeling very internally motivated than a health coach or an accountability partner, they can really be that they can even serve as their own sort of motivation, in a sense, but they can be there for you to really propel yourself into that next step, or to give you ideas with how to get started and to just get that momentum going. Yeah,
12:33
as you're talking, I just am picturing like someone stuck in the mud, you know. And I think sometimes a health coach can tell you how to get out of the mud, like reach over there or move your body this way. And sometimes they'll actually throw you a rope and pull you out of the mud and say, I'm here for you. I'm right next to you. I've got you. So there's, there's lots of different ways to support people when they're feeling stuck. So I just had that distinct vision visual there. Tell me, in your experience, when you work with clients, what do you think are some of the most common things that are keeping people stuck? I
13:06
think self limiting beliefs is a big one. Will you tell us a little more about what that means? Sure, an example would be thinking to myself, I'm not worthy of change or or I don't know how to change, or I am not capable. I can never make this change. I'm stuck. Those can all be self limiting beliefs. I think that's probably the biggest thing that holds people back. Very rarely do I hear I do hear it sometimes, but rarely do I hear people say, I don't have any information. I don't know. I don't know what to do. I truly I have no idea. I do hear from people I don't know which direction to go into. I'm bombarded with information. I don't know what's right. I do hear that. But again, I think that limiting belief aspect is, is what really gets people. Will you
13:58
explain how that affects us? So we have a thought that says I'm stuck, or maybe I'm afraid of failing again, or I'm afraid I'll let myself down, or I'm not worthy of taking this step. What happens after we have that thought in our brain? How does that actually keep us stuck then?
14:15
Yeah, so if you think about it in terms of the fight, flight or freeze or fawn response when we have a thought like that that is sending messages to our amygdala and all those parts of the brain that are connected that basically is telling our brain like we are not safe, and that can send us into one of those categories. Let's use freeze, for example, and then that that that shuts off our ability to kind of like see outside of the weeds and and to create that greater vision for ourselves, just our thoughts are so powerful. Just that thought alone, of I can't do this or I'm stuck, it can feed into that response, and yeah, that can keep us from taking the next actionable step forward. Yeah, yeah. I
15:00
think that's such a key concept, is understanding that our brains will believe us, right? Yeah, whatever our brains are thinking is what our body will believe, and whatever our body is doing is what our brains will believe. And there's a really delicate balance there of the more that we think those things the rest of the brain and the body will be like, got it? I understand what you're telling me you're afraid of failing. I will stay in one place, and we can actually feel that in the body and feel that in the other thoughts that we think the other thoughts will then just reinforce that and say, You're right. Here we go. We are gonna fail, you know. And it's sort of an unkind little interaction in our brain that happens like we kind of wish it was different, but it really is. It just creates more of the same. So if we have those, those limiting beliefs, then our brain will create more of the same, and that becomes our reality. Yeah,
15:50
our brain hears the messages that are going through it all day long, the thoughts that we have. It's picking up on those, whether we're conscious of them or not. So yeah, even just changing that internal dialog, which does take practice, it's not, you know, it's not as easy as just, I'm going to change it today, like it takes work to change it. But that can be another really important and helpful change too. Once you're you start kind of getting your brain on board with, you know, statements of like, okay, brain, we're going to do it. We're going to do it today. We're going to just make one small change, just like hearing those supportive words within our own selves, it can make a really big difference. Yeah,
16:28
for sure, for sure. So let's talk a little bit more about habits and habit change and how we can really get to where we want to be with our health goals. One of the things that I find really interesting is something called the motivation triad. And that's sort of there are three main things that that contribute to our motivation to do something or not do something, and one is the avoidance of pain and discomfort. One is seeking after pleasure, and one is conservation of energy. Will you speak about those, we'll start with avoidance of pain or discomfort. Because I think this comes up a lot. Will you speak to how that comes up with people like, how do we how does that show up in our lives when we're trying to get started with change, and we have this, this trigger in our brain to say, we should avoid discomfort, we should avoid pain.
17:18
I think simply, when we're trying to make changes, we're taking ourselves outside of our norm, outside of our routine. So whether that is incorporating a little bit more movement or starting incorporating one new food group that's going to be outside of our norm, and that's when our brain can start saying, Whoa, whoa, whoa, this. This is different. I don't know about this and and where, again, kind of those like signals of this is scary, can start popping up. Yeah,
17:47
I love that. I like to use I talk to myself a lot in my brain, conversations ongoing in my brain all the time. And one of the things that I will do when I am trying to make a change and I feel that is say, Oh, I see you. I see you there. This is new for you. This is uncomfortable. You're going to reject this. And I think the more that we recognize that we don't have to get down on ourselves, we don't have to be like, Oh, why are you arguing with me brain, like I'm trying not to eat the sugar because I know it doesn't make me feel good, and you're telling me that it's uncomfortable to not eat the sugar. And instead of arguing with ourselves, which can trigger that fight or flight, we can just say, like, I see you. This a little uncomfortable. I'm trying something new. Let's see how it goes. So I think that that's such an important part of change is just like you said, recognizing that that's going to be a really natural inclination for us to cling to comfort and to avoid change. The brain really wants to avoid change where it can. Yeah, I'm
18:44
to build on that. I'm glad you mentioned that, because the discomfort portion say, even saying internally to ourselves, it's okay if we feel uncomfortable, that can then help reinforce that safety component within our own selves and and kind of like, just get the brain and the body used to change in that way, yeah, because we're going to have to get uncomfortable. That's kind of the the not fun part about some of these changes is it's, it's exciting to work towards bettering ourselves or working towards a goal, but sometimes you have to get uncomfortable in order to do that, but it's just speaking from my own personal experience and from what clients and patients have told me in the past, learning to sit with the discomfort of change that can feel rewarding in its own sense, and that can end up Being a different kind of dopamine builder versus whether it's like reaching for, I don't know, a cookie, if the cookie doesn't support your goals, sometimes cookies do support your goals. But yeah, so I just wanted to add that little tidbit, because I think that's great to just note on.
19:53
I love that. And I think that, along those lines, leaning into discomfort is trainable. It's teaching. And I think that the more we lean into the discomfort, the less it feels uncomfortable. If that, I mean, that sounds kind of obvious, but like we can get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And this is actually one of the tools that I've seen used, and perhaps you've used this with your clients, is, you know, when we're when we're feeling particularly stuck, when we're feeling like, gosh, I keep trying to add these habits, and nothing's working. Can if we identify that the body and brain are intensely seeking comfort, then we can even just start there. We're not starting with go for a five minute walk or start adding more veggies. We're just saying, Can you do something uncomfortable today? Can you can you just do one thing that is out of your normal habit? And I think for some people, that's all it takes is to start saying, Gosh, this was a silly change to my habit, like, maybe you got into bed on the right side instead of on the left. But the brain really does respond to those things, to say, Gosh, I changed a habit. Doesn't matter what the habit is, just the nature of sort of changing and being a little bit uncomfortable with that change our brain is, again, you create more of the same. So if you're creating change, then the brain's like, Cool. I'll change with you. Yeah, it adapts. So I love that idea. Okay, we'll just touch briefly on the other two. One is conservation of energy. This is one of the ways that we can sort of get in our own way, because our brain is just in the background, constantly trying to use as little as energy as possible. That's not like a failing of any of ours. That is just literally the way the brain works. And I found this one really interesting. I had an experience that is so silly, like it's so ridiculous, but my daughter asked me one time, can you go get downstairs and get my water bottle? And like, the normal response would be like, go get your own water bottle, like you have legs, like you're perfectly capable walking down the stairs. But my response was almost like offended, like, how dare you ask me to do one more thing today? Like, how dare you ask me to expend energy? And at the time, I noticed that response in my brain, and thought, that's kind of weird, that I feel that intensely, and that's when it kind of hit me that I think that I'm intensely conserving energy. I think I my brain is deeply avoiding any extra output of energy. And so even driving around a parking lot and just keeping circling until you find the closest spot, and then suddenly you realize, like, I I could park the 10 spots away. I don't actually need to be right next to the door. Is this something that you see come up with your clients
22:31
absolutely and I think that we're all we're all busy people. We all have a lot going on. And something that I hear from my clients a lot is that they they get to the end of their day and they just don't have the energy to go on that walk or to make the dinner they they feel tired from just the demands of of just their normal day today. And that's fair, because as humans, we are biologically designed to want to conserve that energy, like the example that you gave, you, know, walking those extra steps to get the water bottle that could be dire. And, you know, back in the caveman cave woman days. So yeah, and this can come up in in way of whether it's wanting to increase our activity or change our eating pattern, any sort of additional effort that we want to put towards our goals that's going to require energy, because it's using new neural pathways within our brain. So, yes, that can be something that that clients patients do struggle with. But again, we can definitely put tools and steps in place to help our brain feel more at ease with pushing a little bit more energy output just into into the world there? Yeah, exactly.
23:41
I think just recognizing that, like, when your brain does that, just saying, like, oh, there's my human side, right? Like, there's my cave woman side, telling me to conserve energy and not to, not to put out as much energy. And then the last one, which we won't go into, because it's pretty self explanatory, is seeking pleasure. And I think that that makes a lot of sense. Why we do what we do is because it feels good, and none of these are good or bad. It's just recognizing in our brain that the brain is naturally going to do these three things all day, every day, and we don't have to overcome them, but we can recognize if they're holding us back or not. So I really like talking about that
24:17
Absolutely. Can I add a note on the pleasure piece? Yes please. And
24:21
this could go to avoidance of pain too. But I think something that this is another thing that I hear a lot too. People say, clients say that they don't want to not enjoy what they're eating, or they don't want to hate the movement that we're doing. We have this idea that when we're working towards health goals, health and wellness goals, and we're implementing these new habits that it's going to be a process that doesn't feel great and it's not going to be pleasurable in any way, and we can make it so that that is not the case. And let's say you're someone who truly isn't feeling like you enjoy movement. Let's say. You have a goal, that you want to move more, but you're not enjoying it right now. So you've established that moving more is important to you, that is a value of yours at this point in life. So let's work towards it, but we can also incorporate pleasure. Maybe it's not with the movement directly, but maybe it's after the fact or before. Maybe it's giving yourself a foot massage, or maybe it's drinking, you know, like a flavored water after you get back, or maybe at some other point within your day. We can incorporate pleasure in other ways. We shouldn't have to have this relationship between, like, changing goals and working towards health goals changing habits, excuse me, and it being a very unpleasurable experience, it's important to work fun and pleasure and all of those other great things into our day in other ways. And I think that that's, that's where that self discovery piece can come to into equation. Because you're you're learning like, what do I find pleasurable? What is fun? What what other aspects can I bring into my day to like round to round it out in a more holistic way.
26:03
I love that the idea of joyful movement, right? Is one example of like, you know, I think people we use exercise so much because it's in all of our brains, right? We all know we're supposed to exercise more, and so as soon as we do that, we think we picture some sort of exercise, whether that's going to the gym or going for a run or, you know, whatever that exercise looks like. And instead, that exercise can just be joyful movement to start with, right? Like, like, just incorporating what you love into this. I love that So very briefly, I want to talk a little bit about, how do we even form habits? So we all know that we are a collection of habits, right? Most of us are not intentionally doing things like we're not making tiny decisions consciously all day every day. We're making a lot of decisions subconsciously. I think sometimes when we talk about habit change, there's a lot of guilt and shame around it, because I shouldn't have been I shouldn't have developed this habit to begin with. I see this a lot with patients and drinking like Diet Coke. I don't ever tell them that they shouldn't be drinking diet coke. I very rarely. I will ask them to do a trial and see how they do without it, but it is a rare day when I tell them the root of your medical problems is drinking diet coke. And yet a lot of people will sort of say, like, I know, I know I should drink less Diet Coke. Well, aside from, like, whether it's a good habit or a bad habit, why does someone get into a habit to begin with? Yes,
27:33
so there's a stimulus and there's a response, and the more that we respond to said stimulus, whatever that stimulus may be, the more that a new neural pathway starts to form, and the more that a habit is created. And I'm someone that doesn't necessarily think that there are quote, unquote, good or bad habits, and I don't think that some people like to pathologize certain habits. I don't necessarily think that the the the stimulus, comes from, like a pathological place, something. Sometimes it can just be as simple as, in your example, the Diet Coke, like I'm tired, I'm reaching for a Diet Coke. Yeah, I think that's that can be as simple as it is in terms of how habits get started, so there doesn't have to be any sort of morality that's assigned to habits.
28:27
I am so glad you said that, because I think that's super, super important, and I hope people understand this. And I loved how you explained that. I think that's super helpful, because if we're going to try to change a habit, it's helpful to look backwards and say, What stimulus is this habit treating is this habit responding to? There's no judgment, there's no negative or positive. There just is that once you have that stimulus, then you have a response, and then you have an outcome. And there doesn't need to be guilt or shame, like, I shouldn't have responded that way, like, who cares? You responded the way you responded, and then you your brain developed that neural pathway that says when a happens, then I do B, right? Now the brain doesn't have to think about it every time a happens. It just has decided when a happens, I do B. It saves the brain some energy, right? So now we have this habit forming, a happens, then B happens, and then you get C as an outcome. So I think where this comes into play then is, if c is not the outcome that we want, then we can go backwards and say, well, then is B the right response for the stimulus, because we can't always get rid of the stimulus, for your example, if we're fatigued. And I'm going to change the example, because I don't want to make that sound judgmental, because I don't think Diet Coke is the main problem that we're facing. If there is a stimulus and we respond in a way, and then it creates an outcome that we don't like, then we can see if we can change the stimulus. But mostly what we're saying is we're. Could I respond differently? And we know, based on what we already spoke about with motivation, that the brain is going to resist that a little bit. It's going to push back when we say, but I don't want to try B, I want to try x, I want to try a different response to that stimulus. The brain is going to resist that. And we can say, That's okay. I understand. I see you there. I see your brain, you're you're pushing back a little bit because this feels uncomfortable. I see that I'm going to try it anyway, and then we see if that other response that we had leads to an outcome that's more in line with with what the outcome is that we want.
30:33
Yes, absolutely. And just to touch on again, what you mentioned at the tail end there, saying to yourself, that's okay, that we're feeling that way, bringing in that self compassion piece that's such a big part of the equation, that's something that can help us through every step of habit change, no matter where we're at so I love that you touched on
30:51
that, and it does that because it's not triggering fight or flight. Yes, if we argue with ourselves and we have guilt or shame, that automatically puts us back into fight or flight, and when we're in fight or flight, it doesn't help us solve problems. It doesn't help us change our brain doubles down on conserving energy and seeking pleasure and running from tigers and doing all the things that keep us in exactly the same state. But when we can be grateful, or say it's okay, show compassion to ourselves, that gets us out of fight or flight that allows us to, I tell people, it activates the part of the brain that can be curious and solve problems and do math, right? Yes, I love it. It can be the other part of our brain that can actually approach our solutions in the world instead of just doubling down on the fight or flight. So yes, so true. When we talk about habit change, there's kind of two big aspects that that you have talked about in the past, which is, number one, this side that is very logically oriented, you know, do you need a checklist? Do you need to try, you know, these tiny baby steps? Do you need to put a system in place that will help you create this habit change? But on the other side of that is a little more touchy feely. Woo, woo. Side of it that says, like, how do we create habit change from more of an intrinsic and internal motivating factor? So will you start us off talking about that is, what are the other sides that the other tools, or other approach that we can take to support habit change that isn't just checklists and, you know, reading in a book, you know, follow my exact pathway for habit change?
32:29
Yeah, I love this question, and I think that there is a place for the first category that you mentioned, whether it's like creating the lists or or having like that set routine that you're going to follow. Some people really thrive off of that approach and, and there's parts of that approach that are necessary. The other side of the equation, the kind of the tools and and the the philosophies and approaches that I like to to think about when I think about this. Other side of the equation is incorporating visualization, self discovery, somatic exercises, getting more in tune with what we're internally feeling, what we're physically feeling, tools such as that some of those statements or categories might be new to some people, but yeah, I think there's this whole other realm that when we can step away from the lists and the to do's And and like the checklists, we're able to then dive more into, like our our innate intuition of is what I'm doing, is this approach actually resonating with me? How am I feeling internally? How am I mentally and physically feeling? And that can bring in that so, that somatic aspect, it can bring in a lot of different aspects, whether you you want to think about it in terms of like, then moving more towards visualization, taking what is feeling good for yourselves, and then putting that into your future vision, and vice versa. That's how it can kind of all co mingle. And I can dive into any other, any of those, if you want me to elaborate, yeah,
34:00
let's unpack that a little bit. So I think one of the first things that you said was talking about getting in tune with our body. And one of the things I've heard patients say, I'll ask them questions about, like, what happened when you've had that symptom, right? And they'll say, like, oh gosh, I don't know. I'm not in tune with my body. I don't I don't pay attention to my body. I just go through the motions in a day. How do you help teach people to be just in tune with their body?
34:25
It can feel foreign if it's something that you've never done before, but I think it's important to simply take the time to sit and listen to what is internally happening, so that can be as simple as whether you're sitting or standing, if you don't have time to sit, taking taking a second to pause and kind of doing like a body check. How's my stomach feeling? Okay. Maybe I'm not feeling anything there. Okay. How's my hand feeling? Maybe I doesn't feel anything there. Am I touching anything? Is there any texture starting to bring in awareness and strategies and that. Sense and can help us tune more into the body.
35:03
Yeah, I love that. And it can start super, super small. It doesn't have to start off as like, I'm feeling anxiety. Where am I feeling like? That's a great time to do it. One of the times I do this is actually, when I'm brushing my teeth, is I'll be brushing my teeth and my pelvic floor physical therapist, big fan of pelvic floor physical therapy, especially after three babies, my pelvic floor physical therapist worked with me on pelvic tilt. And so that's a great time for me to close my eyes, feel where my spine is, feel where my feel how my feet are connecting with the ground, and feel where my pelvis is. And then that has expanded to that, that slight little bit of just checking in of how do my feet feel on the ground, and where are my shoulders in space, and is my chin slumping, or is my my neck straight? Or is my pelvic, pelvis tucked? Or is it, is it not tucked? And so just, it doesn't even have to be an emotional connection to start with. It can just truly be like, what is under my feet right now? What does the texture of my chair feel like? What do I hear? And just that presence can start to, I think, reconnect those wires
36:09
absolutely and something that I learned from a therapist that I've worked with in the past as well, you mentioned, where am I sitting? What? What, how am I feeling in this seat? That can also help with the safety factor. We've touched a lot on that, but recognizing like my feet are firmly planted on the ground, or I'm sitting in a supportive chair, that can bring in that somatic aspect. It can increase the safety in the body, which can then just, you know, go on to fuel our goals and that habit change process that we're talking about. I love
36:38
it. I love it. I also want to take this moment to apologize to all women on behalf of the medical community, because I think doctors, they're not helping this situation. You know, I think when people go to the doctor, and a doctor will sort of brush off their symptoms or say, you know, a woman says, like, I've been getting stomach aches, and their doctor ends up saying, like, it sounds like you have depression, take this antidepressant, right? There are so many instances of women with gaslighting in the medical community where we say that set of symptoms you're having, it's all hogwash, like it couldn't possibly be a disease. And, gosh, it's a problem. I mean, I think really it's a big problem that women are actually, quite naturally, I think, in tune and connected to their bodies. And the medical community oftentimes, I think, tells you not to listen to your body. I think that the medical community does this in childbirth sometimes where we say, like, No, this is the position you're going to give birth in, or this is how you should breathe, and this is how you should cope with contractions. And I just, I want to apologize. I can't change it for the whole medical community, but it's not right, like women are inherently in tune and connected to what's going on in their bodies, and I want to give women permission to listen to your body and listen to those symptoms. Now, I think that it's easy to draw conclusions about what you're feeling, and that conclusion may not be right. You may be feeling, I have these stomach aches and in your brain, maybe you you end up feeling you've got cancer or something, and heaven forbid, you know that that may not be the right end and conclusion of that symptom. But always listen to the symptom. You know, if you do something and it gives you agitation, or you do something and you notice your neck muscles are tense, or you do something and you notice that you you get headaches or stomach aches. Listen to that your body is I just believe so strongly in the wisdom of the body and what it's trying to tell us. And I think that learning to communicate with our bodies is a little more difficult, but the body sending us messages all the time, and that first step is at least hearing them and feeling them and acknowledging them and saying interesting. My stomach feels like this. My head feels like this. My shoulders feel like this.
38:52
Absolutely, I'll say on behalf of all women, thank you for the apology you have to offer that, but, but, yeah, you're so right. We all have that innate wisdom within ourselves and and we are again, bombarded with so much that sometimes it our signals can get quieted and we don't pick up on them, and we're not recognizing them. So yeah, just taking the time to start just tuning in like you said, Get curious about what your body's feeling. That's a simple and easy way to start building that connection with yourself. Yes,
39:26
and then I think you get to be your own scientist to say, interesting. This is what I'm feeling. What happens if I do this? What happens if I go for a walk? What happens if I drink some water? What happens if I do some breath work. What happens if, what was I doing before? You know, do I get a stomach ache? What was I doing before? Oh, I was eating XYZ, or I was super stressed, or I was, you know, didn't get a good night's sleep, whatever it is. We can be our own scientist, if we're listening to the data, and then we can experiment as a scientist would, and say. Look at the cause that going back to that stimulus, look at what happened before, and then look at what happens after I you know, if I do a do something in response to that symptom, what is that outcome then? And we can really start to be our, our the greatest expert of our own body, and that's as a doctor that's super helpful when people come in as their own greatest experts, because then I can get really accurate and great information from them. When they say, at this point in my menstrual cycle, I feel this, and then at this point, it allows me, when patients say that, it allows me to be a really fun detective, because I'm not having to go back and find the data. I just get to interpret the data, and then, you know, put the clues together to solve that little, the little mystery. So I really encourage people to be the experts in their own body Absolutely.
40:47
And you mentioned fun, and I don't know if everyone's going to think this is fun, but, but I think that becoming an expert on ourselves is fun. That whole process of getting to learn more, it can sometimes it can feel scary and it can feel daunting, but we can reframe that to this is actually fun and exciting. Like, I'm going to take the next couple months or the next year or however long, and I'm going to learn more about myself. What? What can I recognize this the this food makes me feel this way, or this situation makes me feel this way. How interesting? Keep a journal, like, make it fun, if you, if you feel so inclined to, like, really lean into that, that aspect of it and and just shift the mindset to that of like, oh, this is daunting to like, no, let's make this fun. Yeah, take the reins back. I
41:32
love it. I love it. You mentioned journaling, and I'm a big fan of that as well symptom journaling. And I think a really good time to do that is with the menstrual calendar if you're still having periods, because it's number one. There's a million apps that you can do it on, and you can just track whatever symptoms you want, and it shows you in a calendar, but even in just a paper journal, tracking your symptoms and also tracking your behaviors around those symptoms. Are there any other just really doable tips you can give people of how to get more in tune with their bodies and really start to become that expert on themselves. Yes,
42:04
so journal. I do love journaling. Journaling is so great. I like reminders, setting reminders to like throughout the day, whether it's to just like, take a moment to pause and do, do a couple deep breaths or meditation. I like that. They even make apps now, where kind of going off of the meditation thing, like simple meditation apps that are free. I like those as a tool. Let's see.
42:31
I think you've mentioned in the past using too a body scan. Will you explain what
42:35
that is? Yes, a body scan. That's a great one. Yeah. So what that is, is basically, if you were to go through it, it could be 510, minutes, but starting either from your feet, from the top of your head, and just going body part by body part, scanning down and just just recognizing how is this area feeling, and just bringing some mindfulness and some recognition to that area, and going through each body part until you're fully complete with the body that can be a great way to switch over to that parasympathetic nervous system, rather than the sympathetic, which is our fight of light. So yeah, that can be a great way to kind of bring ourselves more in tune with our bodies as well. Simple body scan is easy.
43:14
I love that. I like adding to a body scan like a quick emotional scan too, as you get to that heart space in your brain, as you're moving up or down the body, when you get to the heart space to say, what emotions Am I feeling or have I felt today? And sometimes we just have to label them. Sometimes we just have to say, I felt a lot of anger today. I felt a little sadness today. I felt a little disappointment today. And it's crazy to see how much it gets released just by showing it a little attention and saying, Oh, there you are. You're still there. I'm still holding on to a little sadness. There you are. I see you sadness. And we feel like, I think a lot of women are fixers, and so we feel like, well, but what do I do about it once I recognize it? What do I do about it? And it's fun to see that you don't have to do anything. Usually, it just needs to be seen and a little internal hug and compassion to yourself to say, Oh, interesting. I had that experience today. And I think that can be helpful too, if you have a physical complaint too, like joint pain or have something that feels tight, is just pausing that body scan in that area and say, say, oh, what does that feel like? It feels tight, it feels gnawing, it feels sharp, it feels rumbly, it feels, you know, achy. And then just saying, I see you, you know, acknowledging that you and I talked about, we're kind of hippies, and we will, so maybe it's a little hippie, but I love it. I think just showing that attention to the body can be really beneficial.
44:34
Same. I agree, and I love that when you were saying that you placed your hands over your chest, that can be another great thing to do is, is whether you're going to sleep at night and you're choosing to do kind of this emotional assessment then or whatnot. But whether you're falling asleep and you're just placing those your hands right over your chest, or even if it's in the middle of your day, or even just rubbing your arm, that's something that can switch us over to that parasympathetic nervous system as well and bring. That safety aspect back in but you're so right too, and that's a whole other tangent we could get off on when it comes to feeling the emotion. I know that's something that I've personally struggled with a lot in the past, and I've learned the tools on on, kind of like how to approach this through the own, my own somatic work in therapy that I've done, but but learning to just sit and recognize what you're feeling, the emotion you're feeling, that's all that needs to be done there. There is nothing else, and that can sometimes feel disheartening, but it can also feel empowering too, once you just recognize that's all that we innately need is, is that witnessing, yeah,
45:40
the brain and the body are so powerful in that way. So we've talked about how awesome the body is and how helpful it can be to tune into the body and understand what's in the body. Remind us how that then circles back to habit change, and if we feel stuck in our health goals, how does that tuning into the body? How do we use that? Once we've, we've we've now gotten in tune with our body. We feel it. We're we're listening to it. How do we use that? Yes,
46:07
okay, so we, we've tuned into our body. We've we're building that relationship with our body. So we're bringing that safety aspect into more into our into our lives. We're feeling that more. We're switching out of that fight, flight, fawn, freeze, all the things. And so once we kind of have more of that safety aspect going on, our body is going to feel better taking on new habits or taking on new action steps. So once we're at that point, that's when I think is is a great spot to start adding in little steps and and see how you do with it. And you've worked to start building this connection so you can now better assess once you start adding in those steps. Okay, how am I feeling? What's working well, what's not working well, what shifts do we need to make? And ideally, we're working to also build up self compassion as we're as we're creating this relationship with ourselves and the safety. So that's another aspect that can come in. And I also, I know we're talking about so many different aspects here, and I don't want it to sound overwhelming to people. It can start out so simply. And you don't have to start with thinking to yourself, like, Okay, I have to start, you know, with the somatic changes, and then I have to build compassion. But I also have to, you know, build safety. Have that in mind. Have to think about that throughout the day, that it can sound like a lot and it doesn't have to be. It can again, going back to those small steps, we can take the small steps and implement those with building the relationship with ourselves and our bodies. Step one, well,
47:39
and there's just so many options, you know. You can see what feels best to you, you know, see what resonates with you, and leave the rest of them alone.
47:47
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, but, but yes. So those can just fuel the the steps and the changes that we that we want to make moving forward. And again, it can be a fun process to do. So another aspect of that is when we become more in tune with ourselves, we can recognize what our body is needing, which can then inform what aspects we're bringing in or what aspects we're saying. Hey, you know, I don't think I really need that anymore. I can, I can let that go and and so that can, in a sense, form our own our health journey, and the direction that it goes in a more intuitive way. And that's
48:22
something I'm really open to as a physician, is when patients will say, like, if I suggest a step, and I hope they will say this back to me, if I suggest a step, and they say, like, I don't, that doesn't feel right to me right now. That's that feels triggering, or it feels like it's not the next step that I want to take. I'm I'm open, and I encourage women to be open to sharing that with your healthcare providers or with your health coach if they ask you to do something and and you say like that, that's not resonating with me, like that's not feeling like the next best step for me. Yeah,
48:54
that's beautiful to be your own self advocate in that way. Yes, that's really great.
48:59
Now, on the flip side of that. One of the things we talked about before is how much the body wants to resist change and wants to resist discomfort. So I want you to comment a little bit on how that comes up in us, and how do we know then we're supposed to trust our intuition, but we also know that there's one part of the brain that is trying to keep us safe, right? That fight or flight system is trying to keep us safe at all costs, which means if it feels uncomfortable, if it feels like it's going to be too much energy, then it's going to resist it. So how do we make sense of that when we're trying to tune into our body, but also we're trying to kind of overcome some of that natural inclination to resist change or resist discomfort?
49:40
Yeah, it's a great thought. It's a great question, and and it can feel confusing. It's kind of like, well, what, what do I believe? What message do I listen to? Yeah, a great way that I like to think about it is thinking of ourselves as our own mother or in a mothering role with ourselves. If that's a little too out there for. You think of yourself as like a kind friend to yourself, but going with the mother analogy, looking at it through that lens, maybe you are needing an ice cream that day, or maybe that won't feel as supportive. Maybe you are needing, you know, a hearty bowl of some protein and some complex carbs. Maybe that's going to help balance your blood sugar. Maybe we need to bring in, you know, like a little bit more of a fun food or same with exercise, maybe we're needing something that feels a little bit more like easy on our joints and and more flowy versus, you know, a strength training workout, just to give tangible examples, but viewing it from a lens of, if I'm a mother caring for a child, what, what decisions would I make for myself in that lens, if I was the the the ultimate, you know, compare compassionate and caring mother figure that I and I find, just like shifting it in that sense and thinking about it in that way can kind of like clear the weeds for those that aren't sure What message is the right, yeah, quote, unquote, right message, bringing
51:03
in that, that wise voice that's in us, in us. And I really relate to that with my little kids, and I've had this conversation with my seven year old, is, what kind of mom would I be if I, you know, let you do whatever you wanted all the time, like you would never take a bath and you would never eat, you know, you'd eat the ice cream cones all the time, and so bringing in that wiser side. I've also heard it from a meditation expert. I've heard them say, see how the voice or see how the feeling feels in your body, that we can really as we get deeper, we can get in tune to this is a feeling I'm listening to my body, and it's coming from within. But this feeling feels agitated and it feels uncomfortable and it maybe feels sharp, whereas another feeling might feel peaceful and feel joyful and feel comfortable. And we really want in as much as the idea might feel uncomfortable, but we really want to feel that sense of truth or rightness or wisdom that's that's guiding us, and that can feel a little out there for people, but I really think that it's pretty powerful to train ourselves to do that
52:07
absolutely and that brings the somatic aspect back into it, and that, again, practicing that helps us tune more into our body and when we're building that relationship with ourselves, and then that is fueling the new habits that we want to create, the more that we stick to those, and the more that we build that relationship with ourself, the more we're going to build self efficacy, which is only going to then fuel our progress more towards our health and wellness goals, or whatever the goals are that you have for yourself. It's an important aspect of it.
52:38
Yeah, I love that. I think it's so important. Just kind of, I want to back up and kind of zoom out and go back to the beginning of our conversation where we said, okay, patients come in, or clients come in. Women feel stuck. You know? They say, hey, I want to change these health habits. Why can't I just do it? Like, why? Why? What is it? What is getting in my way from just moving forward? And so we talked about, sometimes baby steps and some of the more logistical situations, you know, creating a system to support you, or having a coach to give you the tools or the knowledge or the accountability, and you start putting these things into place. And after you do that, then you get a little bit more motivation, because we get that positive feedback that says, I did it, you know, I did it, I showed up for myself. And that that loop then becomes really powerful, where we take a little step forward, and it forms that relationship with ourself that says, I can do this. I am showing up for myself. I think that's that's in line with what you're saying there, yes,
53:39
great summarization of that whole, that beautiful, intrinsic circle that we want, that we have. Yes, yeah,
53:46
one of the tools that you've mentioned, that you've used before, as well, is the idea of, and we'll kind of wrap up with this, this idea of visualization and and sort of thinking through the outcome, and what that outcome is going to look like for us before we ever start to make these habit changes. And so I want to talk about that a little bit. There's a quote from James clear that I really like that says most people live in a world others have created for them. Be the designer of your world, and not merely the consumer of it. And so just recognizing that with the habits that we have, there's no good, there's no bad. There just is our existence, right? Our habits, our schedule, whatever it is, just right now there, there just is that set of habits, right? And those habits then are creating a specific outcome. They're they're creating a certain reality for us, and what, what James clear talks about is, do you want more choice over that outcome or or are you just getting pulled along in the current? Are you just taking the environment and the the set of circumstances and the habits that were were kind of piled on you by upbringing or by culture, or by you know, circumstance, whatever it is. Are. Going to be swept along in the current or do you want to create and so explain to us how you use that concept with clients to really help them with habit change. Yes,
55:09
I love that quote. I think that's that's such a great quote. Visualization can be a really helpful tool for someone, especially if they don't know what they want to head towards, where they want to go next. So often we focus on the negative. We focus on what we're doing, quote, unquote wrong, the choices we're making that we're not happy with, what we don't feel good about ourselves with. I think that visualization can help us switch over to more so of a positive, a helpful mindset. So creating that vision for yourself, what would that look like? Tangibly, that could look like spending one or two minutes in the morning with yourself, just thinking, meditating on, what do I want my life to look like? What am I working towards? What? What these health goals that I have for myself. Why do I have them? What? What am I? What am I wanting to work towards, once again, just creating that, that vision for yourself can be so powerful and it can be so specific to let's say you have, I don't know a certain style that you want to dress like, and you're not feeling like you want to, or you can at this stage, maybe like, that's motivating for you to think about, like, okay, I can envision myself in this style. Or maybe more so thinking about it in terms of like, my ideal self. What would that look like? Closing your eyes, taking a moment to picture specifically, what does my hair look like? What does my outfit look like? What? What am I wearing? Any fun jewelry that makes me feel good, simple aspects like that, or it can be with any aspect of your life, like, how do I want to wake up and feel within my body, mentally, physically, emotionally, taking the time each day or every other day to visualize that and create that world within your own mind, for yourself, that can give us the motivation to then start making actionable changes in the form of these other habits that we've touched on.
57:09
Yeah, yeah, it's it's really quite a fun road to go down, because the brain can only think about one thing at a time. It can't have a bunch of simultaneous thoughts. It can flip back and forth really quick, but it can't really think two things at the same time. And so the more that you are feeding in that reality of I am now at my goal weight or my cholesterol and is low now, and my heart attack risk just went down, and I'm going to be old with my grandkids not having had a heart attack, right? Like the whatever the health goals are, or maybe it's like I have a goal that I want to go hiking, and now I can go hiking as we start thinking of that as a reality, and we start visualizing our routine in that reality, the brain doesn't know the difference. The brain doesn't know that it's not true. It just, it's just going along for the ride. And so the more that we can bring in that reality, the more the brain creates more of the same, just like we said earlier. And so going back to that part from earlier, where we talked about those negative thoughts and those limiting beliefs about who we are, that I'm not good enough, or I might fail again, or I'm not strong enough, or whatever it is, those feed the brain, or we can feed the brain the idea of where we want to be, and that's where I really like that quote of taking it back, like take back your life, and say, This is what I want, and this is how it's going to feel, and then reverse engineering it to say, What steps can I take to get to that outcome? And I just love how this is coming full circle, because I want to also emphasize the part earlier we talked about was stimulus and then response, and then outcome. And the more that we focus, we're really good at focusing on the response, right? I shouldn't have done that. If I could just stop doing that. Why don't I just change that habit, and it's kind of a waste of time, like it really is a waste of time to focus on the habit that's not working. The more you focus on the habit that's not working, the more you're going to stay in the habit that's not working. But instead, as we start focusing on the outcome and the habit that is in exact alignment with that outcome, the more that we will be inclined to do that habit, that habit will be more will feel more and more right to us, and the more in tune you are with your body and and taking those moments to pause and communicate with your body and saying, How are you what are you feeling? How's my knee, how's
59:36
my elbow? Right?
59:36
The more that we can tune into the body, the more it will be in that the body will also be in alignment with those habits that are going to line up with the outcome, and then it all just falls like dominoes, hopefully, right? Yes,
59:50
yes, that's a great summary, and you're right. It becomes it becomes intuitive. It all just connects in a very synergistic, natural way, once you just start. Are putting one foot in front of the other, taking the steps to do everything that we've we've talked about. Great summary, yeah, yeah.
1:00:06
I think that one thing that gets in the way is when people try to jump too many steps ahead, you know, try to say, well, you know, step x is in alignment with my goal, but you're only on Step C. I should have used numbers and not letters. But one. BC, yeah, exactly three. Hopefully you can, you can see the imagery, but the idea being that, like, it's okay to just take the next step and the next step and the next step. It was another quote I really like from James clear. He wrote, you know, this book, but there for anyone listening, there is a really fantastic book all about habit change called atomic habits, and I just recommend it to everyone because it is, it is so phenomenal. But one of his quotes is, well, two, I'll finish with these two quotes. It's not always about what happens during the workout. It's about being the type of person who doesn't miss workouts. And I think you can adapt that to anything. It's not about the steps and the habits that you take. It's about being the person who does those habits and and then it's it just, it will just happen. And then he also says there needs to be commitment to tiny, sustainable, unrelenting improvements. And just that nod to consistency of we don't get there overnight. Habit changes hard, as much as we just laid out this whole system for how habit change. It's hard. It's really hard. And the longer you've had a habit, the harder it is to change that habit. And that doesn't make you weak or a failure, it just makes you human. But the more that you can build on it and build on it and take tiny steps forward and just making sure you're continuing to progress in these tiny little ways, you'll you're still getting there. You're still moving along that journey.
1:01:42
A way that I like to think about it is to take yourself out of the equation. Think about it more from a scientific lens, if that helps you. So if you're wanting to start a new habit, like you just said, these small steps, that first small step you took, you just created a new neural pathway. Each time you take that same step, make that same choice afterward, you're just reinforcing it. And that can be powerful to think about it in that sense
1:02:05
too. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, I
1:02:08
could keep talking about this all day. This is one of my very favorite things to talk about, and I just find it so powerful. I find it really, truly can be life changing for us. It has been for me. I mean, I'm not speaking as someone who had this nailed for the my whole life, like this has been an ongoing source of growth for me, but it's where I've seen the biggest changes in myself, is when, you know, learning how to change habits, and learning this self actualization and this, you know, the imagery and the outcomes. And I just am such a big fan of all of it. Yes,
1:02:39
absolutely. I don't think either of us would be sitting here if we didn't have our own in depth, long journey, yeah, with
1:02:46
all of the topics exactly addressed, which is why it's so fun to help people. It
1:02:50
is, it is so fun, wonderful. Well, thank
1:02:52
you, Alicia, for coming. I'm so glad you're here, and I'm so glad you're here with us at uplift for her, people can find you, I know on our website, and they can just sign up to work with you right there. The
1:03:05
information is on our website, www.upliftforher.com,
1:03:09
under women's health services, right?
1:03:11
Yes. And thank you so much for having me. This was so fun, and I'm looking forward to working with anyone that would like to sign up for health coaching.
1:03:17
I love it
1:03:18
well. Thank you so much for joining us today. This was such a fun episode. We'll be back next week with another fun guest. If you are listening along on Apple or Spotify, we would love a review that helps us so much. Feel free to subscribe so you know when the next episode comes up. And if you are watching us on YouTube, you can like, share and subscribe to give us a boost.
1:03:36
Thanks so much.
1:03:38
Thanks for listening, and come back next time for another episode, and remember this information is for education only and not intended to be medical advice. You.
