You go from having maybe teenage acne. And then if you know, you have some months or years of like, okay, it is ebb and flow and then we get to adulthood, it's called hormonal acne. And I believe that hormones are a trigger again, but not a direct cause of acne.
What is going on with my skin? I get this question all the time. I don't care how old you are, if you have acne, it's annoying. And at worst it can really interfere with our life in the way that we show up in the way that we feel about ourselves. So acne is not a small deal. Today we have with us a special guest, Malorie Miles. Malorie, is a master esthetician and owner of MM Skincare, and she has developed a really lovely approach to skincare that is an integrative approach, really helping people understand how their lifestyle and how even their skincare products could be making their skin worse. She shares with us her top secrets of what we can do today to really help clear up our skin. And you will not want to miss this.
So if we can get rid of the non inflamed acne bring your cells into better balance. You're not going to have this big inflamed breakout during your cycle because you're supposed to have those ebbs and flows.
So, welcome Malorie.
Thank you.
We know you don't often get a couple of Mallorie’s together in a room, so this is a special day.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you for coming. Malorie is a master esthetician and runs an amazing skincare clinic called skincare. So thank you so much for coming and for talking with us today. Thank you. We are going to dive into really focusing on acne. But I think of course we'll also talk about just healthy skin and what it takes to have healthy skin.
I'm excited. Go ahead, I'm really excited. Well tell us a little bit about what makes you different to start off with from your typical esthetician, because you do take a more comprehensive and holistic approach than your average esthetician. Yeah. So I guess I should start off by saying that I myself had really bad acne.
12 years old, mine started and so I have had this whole life journey of trying to figure out what is going to help my acne and fix it, and I've done everything under the sun that you could possibly think of with the dermatologist route, like we were talking about and love my mom. She sent me to a homeopathic doctor. So I've kind of done it all. And my approach and my philosophy of skin is definitely different from your average institution. I'm more focused around, you know, getting down to more root cause, like we were saying. Yeah, and I do a lot of virtual work. So it's not that you have to come and see me for treatments. I actually am not like a chemical peel.
Microneedling type of institution. I'm like, what are we doing with diet? What are we doing at home? With home care? Because you get a morning and night routine which treats your skin twice a day, whereas if you go to a regular institution, you're maybe getting a treatment once a month. So I'm really passionate about that side of skincare and
I do absolutely love that because it's actually saying what is the proof in the skin of what's going on in the deeper level, and how do we support that?
So that all of your body is working the best. So I love that you're getting down to those deeper levels. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well let's dive in then. So we're going to talk about acne. Obviously this is a major problem.
This is something that can be really frustrating. And it can really cause a lot of problems with your self-esteem and really make you feel bad about yourself when you're trying just to do anything to feel good in your own skin, literally.
You know, to feel good in your own skin. And this definitely comes up with my patients a lot. And it's not my area of expertise. So I really do want to help our listeners understand what is actually going on with the skin. So I don't think we need to spend too much time convincing people that acne is a problem.
I think everyone either has struggled with acne or knows someone in their household that has struggled with acne. So let's start instead just talking about the science behind it. What is going on with acne? Why won't our skin just behave? I love the science behind it. I think that's my favorite part because it's very misunderstood. Acne is very multifactorial.
You know, you have this really big
puzzle piece. But I really want to talk about cell turnover.
Most people don't even know what that means. Cell turnover is the amount of dead skin that we produce. Everyone produces dead skin. And for the average person that does not have acne. So I'm sure we all know someone who has perfect skin.
Yeah, they don't wash their face. They may be sleeping, makeup. They're not taking care of their skin, but they are glowing. I feel like most of the time it's our husband or man, but we have a friend we know that does that. And their cells are in perfect homeostasis. So every time they're producing a dead skin cell, it's coming off.
It's just bumping off the next. Yeah, yeah. And so we all do that and it's all over our body on our face. We all do that. But acne prone individuals, we are producing 5 to 10 times more than the average person. More cells, more dead skin cells. Yeah. More dead skin or dead skin cells than the average person.
And they are not coming off as fast as they should. Our bodies can't keep up with that overproduction. So that's like the cascade into acne formation. But then we have all of these external factors, right? Like our diet, the things we're putting on our skin, makeup,
internal, that's all kind of like blowing up. And so it's the perfect cascade.
It's usually not one thing. It's many different things. But what all of these acne types have in common is that overproduction of dead skin. So I focus a lot, a lot on that.
So how is that overproduction of dead skin then causing acne? Is it trapping oil or bacteria beneath the surface? Yeah. Those dead skin cells, you almost have to think of them as like sticky building blocks that are just trapping the poor, clogging the poor.
And that's when you get non inflamed acne, which are like the small little bumps under the surface. And actually a lot of people have these and live with them like the average person might have a couple. And yeah, it's it's it's really clogging the poor. And then there are two different ways that this can go. So obviously it's going to mix with oil because we all have oil in our pore as we should.
It's a healthy thing. But for some people, the acne bacteria will get stuck and clogged in that clogged pores, and then it's inflamed and it becomes really big and cystic like.
That was a bacteria that you just mentioned. Yeah. The acne bacteria. Yes. Yep. That gets stuck with the dead skin and oil.
And our bodies are so cool. Like they know and they send our immune cells to try to, like, help. Yeah. And for some people, you'll get the occasional break out and it goes away, and you don't maybe pick out it or touch it, and it just kind of goes away and you're like, oh, that was kind of funny.
But then there are some people who have this all over their face, you know, and they've got all of a sudden they'll go through phases of having clear days and then really, really bad skin days. And so we have to find that balance of really what type of exfoliation is best for your individual skin type and what can you tolerate?
Because so many times, like I was saying, the dermatologist will send you off with a topical and you're like, what do I do with this? How you know, and you, you maybe start using it and then you run into peeling and redness and purging and you're just thinking, I don't even know what I'm doing. And I maybe, you know, don't have a follow up for three more months with the dermatologist.
So what I like to do is really hold my client tan through this process where they check in with me and I'm saying this is normal irritation or no, this is too much and let's do x, y, z.
So go backwards. In the conventional medical approach to acne, there are a few,
solid factors that we consider in acne.
And those are oil production. And I'm not an expert in this. So I'm you're sounding I'm getting back I'm getting back to my education here. But but from what I recall, there's oil production. There's some amount of bacterial issue. There's often some amount of hormonal issue and then some amount of
cell turnover, exfoliation issue. Did I miss anything?
No. Okay. Put it right on there. And then inflammation I guess is when the kind of the cascade to all of these things. So if people go to traditional skincare and say like from I think both an esthetician and a dermatologist, I think oftentimes they'll hear kind of the same thing. But if they go in and they say, I've got terrible acne very frequently, the treatments that we hear about are the treatments that are targeting those issues, which from a from a, you know, logical perspective, I think it does make some sense.
And we'll talk about what what maybe the problems with it are. But just painting that picture, people go to a dermatologist very frequently. They'll have something for bacteria. So that's frequently a cream or a wash, sometimes an antibiotic. Yeah. Right. And oftentimes they're told to just take this. Now really sometimes forever. I mean it's for months and months and months up to a year or more.
I see that all the time. Right. And as a, as a holistic physician, that makes me a little concerned because then you're killing off of the good bacteria. Exactly. You can't just kill the bacteria in one place and not kill it the other place. And also then that brings up the question of like what was going on in the gut to begin with.
So we'll we'll come back to that. But very frequently people will receive an antibiotic. They'll very frequently receive something for hormones to keep hormones from fluctuating all the time. And so we're going to come back and talk about how you address that. But I want to paint the picture of what people are used to hearing. Right. So they'll get a birth control pill.
Maybe they'll start on spironolactone, which is a blood pressure medication. That just so happens to stabilize hormones. Yeah. So, birth control pill and spironolactone, sometimes they might start on like metformin or something to stabilize blood sugar as well. And then they might take something for exfoliation. Some of the classic ones people will hear about for that are the retinols.
Right. That's right about that. Yeah. Adapalene. Yeah. Adapalene right. So they're saying like, go get that skin turnover. Also, isn't that what the, salicylic acid and the benzoyl peroxide are for skin or. Yeah, yeah. Exfoliation and cell turnover. That alpha hydroxy. And then for inflammation I think that's also the retinols
and the sometimes a steroid or something like that to help calm down the inflammation.
Yeah. I know my head is like spinning as you're talking about all this because I'm like, listen to all the prescriptions that are kind of like thrown at us. And really, I, I, I shouldn't even talk about this because I am not the expert, but I've been around it enough that there frequently is that okay layered approach of, okay, we tried hormones and your acne got all the way better, so stay on that forever now, because that's fixed.
We fixed it, you know. But what I hear that a lot of women say is like, well, now I'm having side effects to the birth control pill, or I don't really want to be on the birth control pill forever. Like, can I come off of it and they'll come off it and the acne comes raging back then the other ones, like the antibiotics and the creams, a lot of them are insanely expensive and insurance frequently doesn't cover it because of course, acne is just cosmetic, right?
It's it's no big deal. Insurance shouldn't have to pay for it. I'm totally saying that with a mocking tone. I know in case anyone has any confusion about that. So I just want to paint that picture. I will say I'm grateful those things exist. They can help a lot of people find a lot of success with that. But I do think a lot of people don't find lasting success.
Oftentimes the treatments are expensive and harsh and have negative side effects, so I'm not pursuing the whole field. But let's maybe discuss another way. Yeah. So
maybe talk us through your approach of how you kind of take these different factors and these different layers and help people figure them out one by one to help have the healthy skin that you have and that you can help patients.
Yeah. Well, I'll say most of the clients that come to me have tried all of the all right, like what you were saying. And most of the time my feedback that I'm getting is like, oh, those things didn't necessarily work for me. Those were just the steps that I went through. Yeah, because I thought that was the thing to do, you know?
Right. And they're not wrong. Everyone's on their own journey. But most of the time, what I'm seeing is, like, I thought it was better, but like, you're still going through those ebbs and flows of like, skin being okay but not fully where you want it to be. And then you're like, okay, but yes, I don't want to be on birth control.
It's not sustainable. Or I am on these antibiotics for so long and it's killing my immune system. So,
Yeah, most of the people that come to me have tried everything and still are, just like, I can't find any relief. So.
I kind of have to meet people with where they're at, because not everyone is going to be at the same level of health or be able to, you know, make all of these changes.
Yeah. And I treat, you know, I treat teens, but like the majority of clients that I treat are like 20s to 50s. And so most of the time people who struggle with acne so much are like, tell me what to do. I am game ready. Yeah. I just need someone to help me and guide me. So, my program is kind of set up of, okay, you got this intake form filled out.
They also receive access to this educational portal where I kind of go through what are like every trigger that is known to acne so that we can kind of start working on that now, and then we can leave the skincare and the topical part kind of separated. Yeah. And
What I really want to know is what have you tried.
Because if I can get to know, you know if someone's oh she's done all these chemical pills and microneedling, I kind of can know well how much exfoliation have you given your skin in the past. And where did that get you. Yeah.
so I like to kind of know, what have you tried?
So what? I know what hasn't worked. Yeah. I love hearing about, like, if you have gone on something from the dermatologist, like an antibiotic, I want to know because I'm like, maybe there's a gut aspect to this that really needs to be addressed.
I just want to emphasize that because as a functional medicine practitioner, I will say the same thing
when we're in the holistic world, I think people will be like, we're anti medicine. And my goal is to help people find the best path forward for them, whatever that looks like. But if you've tried a medication that provides information for me, even if I don't necessarily want to use that treatment no long term, it still helps me to see, you know, if you tried an antibiotic and your skin totally cleared up.
Yeah, okay. Well then we know it's some sort of bacterial issue and we can really dive in there. Still do take notes of what has worked in the past, even if that's not the treatment that you want to do long term. So I'm so with that. Yeah. So I and I'm like you I'm like, okay well I'm not the doctor side.
Like I know some things because I've been through it myself. But I love hearing I ask symptoms like I'm like, okay, I'm not the doctor, but like if you're having XYZ, maybe you need to go see a functional doctor. And we kind of like merge both of those worlds. And I give as many like, tips as I can.
But I got a stool test done, and I love stool testing just to see, like what? What's the picture? What does your gut microbiome look like? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like when I talk a lot about gut health, it really comes down to the basics of like eat the Rainbow. Yeah. What are we doing? You know what?
What is your diet like?
what's a day in the life with you?
so many of us, you know, especially in this category of age group, we're waking up. We have to be to work. We're skipping breakfast,
we're not eating like we should. And so again, I have to meet people with where they're at in their life and say, okay, you're here, but how can we take you here with some of these small adjustments? Okay. And so then go through some of these main triggers that you're talking about.
maybe dividing them into categories I know some of the triggers are skincare.
So talk us through what are some of the triggers from skincare that could actually be making acne more? So that's like my favorite. And that's like the top of my list are there are pore clogging ingredients, which I'm sure now if you've had acne, you've probably heard that term or like,
products being poor, clogging or clogging your pores.
This is really, really important because you're putting products on your skin maybe twice a day. And if you already have that issue with cell turnover and your pores are already so clogged and you're just essentially clogging them even more, you're never going to be able to get over that hump. So I have a list on my website that's for you can go look and find the poor clogging ingredients, but these are in everything they're in.
Yes, the skincare products you're putting on your face, believe it or not, they're in the dermatologist creams that you're getting, which doesn't make sense. They're in your hair care products. They're in your, you know, shampoo, conditioner, body washes and a lot of cleansing. Well, you know, I'm not washing my face with my hair products, but our hair sits on our face.
Our hair sits on our pillow. Our face sits on our pillow. So I'm very, 100% about removing all pore clogging. And I looked at that list and it is everything I know. It's so many things. And so
What are the products we should be looking for in skincare to say like these are the good ones. I mean that it seems like it's challenging. Yeah, that's very challenging. I mean, there are a plethora of good ingredients, and what I have found now is there's this big movement of everyone going nontoxic, right? We're all trying to avoid bad parabens and valets, and I'm all for that.
But there's a big difference between something being nontoxic and like, green washed and looking good for you and actually being non pore clogging. Yeah. Because on your list are things that are generally considered healthy like coconut oil, coconut oil and Hoba oil. And I think was calendula oil on there. Yeah. Yeah. So those are things that are are in products that I use and really enjoy.
So that's that's really good to know. So really looking for topical things that we're putting on not just looking for some of the holistic advice that we have and looking for fragrance free and organic or, or even like there will be certain terms like dermatologist recommended or, you know, you really have to get nitty gritty, look at the back of the bottle, look through those ingredients.
And I love helping people with that. I have people all the time that will DM me or be like, what do you think about this? You know, so I'm always happy to help, but it really has to be like in your hands to look through the ingredients. You can't just look at a bottle and be like, well, that's cute, or that looks organic or better for me.
I think that's what I'm running into the most with clients is like, we're all on this health journey of being better, bettering our health, but you really have to merge those two worlds. And that's where I was. I was, you know, using all the fancy skincare lines. I had access to everything during in school to help my skin.
And, you know, I really had the issue with Microneedling and the lasers. I've done. Yes. Everything that you could possibly think of, I had access to. But yeah, even these really, really great skincare lines. I don't like to bash anyone. I'm like, they help many people and like just like you, you have beautiful skin. So I'm like, you could probably use a foreclosure and be fine.
Not me. I could look at coconut oil and break out.
But yeah, you have to look at every single ingredient and it's kind of like our food. Yeah, yeah. Now, when you're talking about being more prone to acne, how much of that is just sort of genetics your whole life versus like, if someone is going to need to avoid these, I really want to say poor.
Okay. Yeah. Keep switching. Those were so hard core clogging elements. Is that something they will have struggled with most of their life, or can that change at some point where there are now 35 or 40 and they're suddenly like, oh, I should really look at these elements. How much of that is it's lifelong? Yeah, I think it's both.
So like I hear all the time, I love having someone walk me through their skin journey. Like that's one of the first questions I say is like, when did this start for you? You know, and yeah, what I'll ask most the time is like a lot of clients will say, oh, after, you know, I graduated high school or it was college or after my baby.
But what I come back to is, were you acne prone at all as a teen? Yeah. And some clients will be like, yeah, I get the occasional breakout. Well, one occasional breakout is acne. So I really think a big part of it is genetic, which I wish I could change because no one wants to hear that you'll have acne for the rest of your life if you don't maintain it and control it.
That's, I think, a really big bummer until you're on the other side of it and you're in maintenance where you're like, wow, it's worth it. Yeah. And most of the things that you're doing for your acne are also really helpful for your health. So it's not like it's a bad trade off. You're getting better as your health is, you know.
Yeah.
So then the next what is another one of the trigger besides the topical things and the poor clogging elements. Yeah. Well obviously we got to talk about diet. Okay. We have to. Yeah.
You know, if you would have met me maybe even four years ago, I was given, you know, really a lot of education up here are acne trigger foods.
I call them triggers because they're not causes. Yeah. A food is not going to cause your acne, but it can definitely be triggering. And so we do talk a lot about diet. I used to really be like I said a couple years ago, I'd be like cut out all the dairy, like no dairy at all. We are going dairy free.
And I lived that life for a long time. But now I've definitely changed my philosophy as I have treated more clients, cleared more clients. I ask every client at the end of our program like what did I say, do x, y, z and you didn't. But you still got clear because I want to know what's working and what's not working.
And it was just one after the other of clients being like, I just couldn't cut the dairy, you know? I even had a client who said, I work at a coffee shop. I have a whole milk, 16 ounce coffee every single day. And I'm looking at her like, your skin's amazing. How did we do this? What's wrong? Yeah, yeah.
So I've. I've changed my philosophy in. And I really think. I think where we all can start is like, let's just try to cut out the process crap because that's going to help everything. Inflammation, hormones, everything. So,
Yeah, cutting, cutting the processed stuff. It's a big one. Yeah, yeah. I got I'll double down on that all day, every day.
I think it's so important for our gut. But also when we cut out processed stuff, what are we eating? We're eating really good stuff. And what does our whole body need to heal? Really good stuff. And there's just this logic there that's so easy to look past. And I this is just a side rant, which hopefully it's helpful because I'm on social media and I'm out in the world too.
And I do get confused
by seeing, you know, dietitians who are out there saying like, ignore all the holistic people that are saying seed oils are bad for you. Ignore all those people like you can eat healthy if you just try to eat some more vegetables. And then on the holistic side, you get people who are, I think, overly extreme, who are like no dairy, no gluten, no seed oils ever for anyone.
No sugar. If you even think about sugar, you're a terrible person, you know? So we have these both extremes, and I really think it's important to recognize that food
needs to be used to heal our bodies. But as we heal, our bodies will be more resilient and therefore our skin will be more resilient. So you may need to pull it back and be quite strict for a little while.
And then if you're careful, you'll be able to find like, I can do 80% really, really watch me and I can I can sneak in another 20%. If I go out for my birthday, then I'm going to get, you know, creme brulée. Or if I go, it has to be sustainable. Exactly. Especially if acne might be a lifelong thing for you.
It has to be sustainable. And yes, I find that like the strict strict diets, just people get overwhelmed and then they develop anxiety around food, which I do not want. I've been there and that's even worse. So yeah, I usually say if it's a God given food, eat it. Yes, and eat a lot of it, you know. Yeah.
So exactly. Yeah. Well, so I'm glad you bring that up. Are there any foods in particular that are supportive for skin healing that people should know about protein. Yeah, yeah. I even on my own journey of having PCOS, I have learned that protein is everything in balancing glucose and insulin levels. And that's a really big piece of the puzzle for androgens and balancing that part of hormones and acne.
And so I'm I'm big. I used to think protein was, you know, for the gym bros. Or if you wanted to build muscle, I thought, what do you drink? A protein shake and you get protein. I didn't even know the composition of like what foods give you protein. Yeah, yeah. So some people don't know that. And that's that's again where I have to meet people with where they are because some people are just don't even know what protein is, you know?
So especially breakfast, I think we say breakfast is the most important meal of the day, but it is because you either set yourself up for success or you're on this glucose roller coaster all day long. Yeah, I love that. Any other specific foods that, at least for a time as you're healing, you do want to kick to the curb.
I do think sugar is in there. And you mentioned kind of cutting processed foods out or decreasing processed foods. I think that a lot of people will go to the dermatologist and, and the dermatologist will say like, don't worry about food. Food is not affecting your skin. And there's some really that's not all dermatologists. I'm not dissing the medical field or, you know, I would I'm not meaning to be negative, but I do think that is something that a lot of people hear is it doesn't matter what you eat.
This is a skin condition. And that's that's not completely true. I do think there are some people who will say they cut sugar out, and then they add it back in there, break out like crazy. So what do you tell those people? Yeah, I get those breakouts related to foods. I really love people to do a for food journal.
Yeah, because so many of us were go go go and we are not actually sitting and actually feeling. How did I feel after that meal. Yeah. And you know, like I was saying, I used to say here all these trigger foods, dairy, peanuts, eggs, like all of these different triggers, but not everyone is going to be triggered by certain foods.
And so actually listening to how your body feels after you eat a meal can say a lot about how you're processing things. Also like, why aren't we paying attention to our poop? Yeah, I know it's stupid, but like, we just don't. And that can tell us a lot, a lot about our bodies. Absolutely. I ask every patient about poop every day.
Well, yeah, it's just normal for me now. So it causes some awkward situations sometimes when they're like, why are you asking me about my poop? It's like, oh, you don't talk about your poop. Yeah. So it is it is super important. And just emphasizing again, oftentimes there's a healing phase and then you can graduate to the less stringent phase.
So you may be able to handle things later that you have to get really messed up in. And life and inflammation. Yeah. See that. Yeah. Yeah for sure. Yeah 100%. Absolutely. Yeah. So in the gut to, you know, people who get bloating with response to one food and then as we so we cut it out and they do what got healing protocol rehab.
And then they're able to reintroduce it. That's cool. That's we should try. Yeah. When people say like oh I did a food sensitivity test and I now have to eliminate these 18 foods for the rest of my life. Yeah, I just think that's a little animalistic. I know sometimes I don't really know how I feel about the food sensitivity test because I'm like, are they just showing these markers of foods you eat so often and your body's kind of creating?
It's one or the other. So that's what I tell patients. The food sensitivity tests, if they come up positive, it means either you're sensitive or you ate it, which is not particularly helpful. So I tell patients to use it. I don't do it on everyone. But where we're getting into like, I don't know, we're not getting better or something feels stuck.
I do think it can be helpful as a guide for an elimination trial, a science experiment, to say these are the foods that came up. And I do eat these all the time. So what happens if I don't eat these? Do I feel any better? Yeah. And then I do the stuff that I think a lot of people skip is a really concrete reintroduction.
So you say I just cut eggs out for two weeks now. I'm not just going to have a tiny bite of eggs. I'm going to freaking have eggs. Yeah, yeah. So then you have a full serving of eggs every day for 3 to 5 days, and then you cut them back out again, and then you can really see the body's reaction.
So going through that, you'd see if you have a breakout, you'd see if you get bloating, you'd see if you get your eczema goes crazy or different things like that. So I do I again, I talk about what I said earlier, the like the conventional world, dietician and medical world compared to the other end of the spectrum of the super hippie world.
And I think both of them can be really, really confusing. And the answer for me lies in the middle of the same. You know, you and we can use tools to figure out what you need. I love that you say that because I tell every client like you, you know your body better than anybody else does. Like we're not.
We're not in your body. Right. And you got to listen to it, right? Yeah, I will listen to it. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Awesome.
We can't cut everything out forever. Yeah, and if you focus on the, you know, having a really balanced diet and having, I say every plate should have protein, fiber, carb.
Yeah. And I have some clients do the food journal, and I have some clients who just don't know about protein are like, no, you know, I, I'm trying to do the whole one gram of protein per pound of body weight. Man, is it hard. I have to be like, yeah. So I'll go through phases of tracking it. I'll use something like My Fitness Pal.
Sometimes that's a trigger for some people because they're seeing the calories in all of it. And I say, don't, just don't even pay attention that just look at like, what is the composition of your food? Yeah. So that you can then almost turn that into intuitive eating if you know what your food is made out of, you know.
So yeah. Yeah, I love that. Okay. I'm going to resist going further down that because it's so, so helpful. But yeah. But I think that's a really great, great approach. Okay I know another big trigger that people will absolutely ask about is hormones. How our hormones attached to acne, how do they interplay with each other. So I think this is what's so challenging is you go from having maybe teenage acne.
Yeah right. We label it as teenage. And then if you know, you have some months or years of like, okay, it being ebb and flowing and then we get to adulthood, it's called hormonal acne. And I, I don't necessarily like labeling acne a certain things. I just find that that's the label. Like you're you're an adult now. You have hormonal acne.
Yeah. And so I believe that hormones are a trigger again, but not a direct cause of acne. Yeah. And so what you shouldn't just get rid of all of your hormones. Know. Exactly. Yeah. Like we're we're meant to have this ebb and flow and to have the ovulation and then to have the menstruation. So I every time I have client that's like I'm breaking out the week before my cycle or I'm breaking out during ovulation, which I'm such a big proponent of tracking your cycle.
Yeah. Like you have to know where you're at first. And so using something like Natural Cycles, I'm a big, big fan of actually tracking your basal body temperature so that you can see if your breakouts relate to where you're at in your cycle. Yeah. But we are supposed to have those dips and peaks. And so what I find what I really try to teach clients is that what you're having is those in those non inflamed bumps are the teeny tiny little bumps you're not noticing underneath the the dead skin is those are what are becoming inflamed due to the fluctuations.
So if we can get rid of the non inflamed acne bring your cells into better balance. You're not going to have this big inflamed breakout during your cycle because you're supposed to have those ebbs and flows.
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we need to get as women more educated about like what our cycle is and all of the phases of it. And so the first day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell us a little bit about PCOS because I know that's something you're passionate about. And can women get rid of acne without spironolactone.
Yes. I am the one that will tell you because I have PCOS, I've had irregular cycles my whole life, and I did the birth control thing for a long time. And looking back at like my own journey. Love my mom. She was doing the best she could for me, but I was 17 and was on progesterone. Yeah. And I'm like, why was I on that?
I didn't know anything about balancing my blood sugar levels, which I feel like is a really big piece of PCOS. I don't know if that's how you are 100%. Yeah, yeah, it depends on the type of PCOS. Sure. Yeah, I know, and doctors would tell me all the time like, okay, but you're thin, you know, you don't have.
I'm like, well, there's so many types of PCOS. Yeah. So I think the metabolism part is really, really important. And I focus a lot on really getting people to eat breakfast and eating a high protein breakfast. Yeah. Because I don't know if you run into that. People are waking up and not eating and coffee and coffee and then not having lunch until 2 p.m. and yeah, oh, it's so bad.
And it well, it's it's just not what our bodies are meant to run off of. Yeah. So the body is just doing the best.
it can to keep up with us. And it it has it sprouts leeks. Right. It starts saying like okay, well I'm running on empty here. So I guess I'll just do the best I can and I'll borrow some glucose from back here in my body.
And so then glucose spikes are trying to keep us stable and yeah, it's. And you feel it like I know when I'm good and when I'm bad and all. I'll know when it's when I'm not doing well. Because I'll hit a crash and I'll feel like, oh, I need another pick me up. And then I hit myself and I'm like, no, you just didn't eat a high protein breakfast that day, you know?
Yeah. And so,
yeah, I'm here to say, like, this is my job, but you will see me with the occasional zit. Yeah. You know, and so I've had to kind of come to terms with that with, like, I'm not expecting my skin to be perfect all the time when there's all of these external factors, but I'm nowhere near where I used to be with skin.
So I'm happy. And I think that that's where a lot of clients are at, where they're like, I don't need perfection. I just need to have a little bit more confidence, more stability in my skin. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Awesome.
Another trigger that I think people will have questions about. We talk a lot about stress and breakouts. What is the link there?
Is there a link or is it a is it a fake link? I think that when we're stressed, you could probably say this too, that we're inflamed, like our body is inflamed. And when we have inflammation again the non inflamed acne is going to become inflamed. Yeah.
So yeah I'm really into like regulating our nervous systems and just taking a second for yourself, taking some good deep breaths, especially when you're doing your skincare.
I find is a really nice time just to like, bring it down a notch, you know, and and really like during those times, I try to do some affirmations when I do my skincare routine because a lot of it is mental too. And then I feel like if we're stressed and we're looking at ourselves and we're like, oh, my skin is so bad, then we're picking.
Yeah. So that's where it becomes a really bad cycle of I'm stressed, I need to relieve this. They're picking, they're digging. And then that's leading to scarring and pigment. So tell us go down that that path for just a second. Because I do think that comes up is the idea of picking what's so wrong with picking just just lay it out for us.
Well, most of the time when we're picking, we're picking something really big and inflamed. The ones that hurt, we want to get them out. Yeah. I've been I'm still the girl that like, sometimes has to be like, put your hands down.
So yeah, what we're doing when we're actually picking our skin is we're breaking our skin and we're trying to get that not inflamed.
I call it a core. Yeah, because if I do professional extractions in clinic, I actually get the core out. And you can't do that with your fingers. You can't. And so you're breaking the skin. You're usually pushing that non inflamed acne deeper and sometimes exploding it out the back of the. Yeah. The poor poor yeah yeah yeah yeah.
So and then usually you create this big monster and then it's scabbing. Yeah. And I hate to say it but then we're picking our scabs. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever experienced that, but we're picking our scabs and then we're trying to put makeup over it. And that is going to slow down our healing process and then lead to scarring and actual pigment, but also pitting.
Yeah. And so. Well, and I think that the more you, the more it gets infected or inflamed, the more that the body is trying to heal it. And healing is inflammation and healing and scarring and healing is, you know, thickening of skin and, and sending sort of stuff there to heal, which then we're picking at and yeah, can create that for sure.
I'm a really big fan of icing during that time when you are stressed and you're like, look at my skin and it's super inflamed, grab a piece of ice and roll that ice around your face because that's going to calm you. It's going to calm you actually, because it's cold. Yeah, it's going to lower the inflammation and it's going to help you not pick out your skin, I love that.
Yeah, I love don't hold the ice in one spot. I should preference that because some people get that confused and then that can burn you. So just cleanse the skin and then ice I love it. What are the other big triggers that you want to make sure that we think about as we're kind of saying because this as a as a practitioner this is what we do.
Right. We have this mental list of all of these triggers. And when we're taking a history from someone, we're trying to match that with our mental list. Right? So as someone's talking, our brain goes, oh God, I heard something about got oh, I heard something that triggers inflammation for me. Oh, they used a topical antibiotic and it got better.
Okay, so I know bacteria is an issue. So people need to understand that when they're giving the history we're matching it to our list. So is there anything else people should know about the big ones that are on your list? Yeah, I think that there are some smaller things that really add up. So I'm going to hit a couple.
So the first one is usually people are either working out and sweating or they're in a sport. If they're younger and sweating. I love sweating because man is not a great detox pathway. I'm all about it, but a lot of us are going from the gym to the car to driving home, and that sweat has dried up on our skin and the salt is actually very irritating to the poor.
And so
after that workout, just go right into the gym bathroom and just splash your face. Even just a splash of water. Really? Well, we'll get that salt off the skin. The other caveat to that is so you're not trying to like, wash off the oil, have to know just the salt.
Yeah. And even some people like dad. But sometimes dabbing isn't getting the sweat off. So yeah, just like go to the gym bathroom and splash. Yeah, yeah. The other one though is there can be salt in salt pools. Chlorine can be in pools. Some people have actual water softening systems in their home that have salt in the water to help with the mineral buildup, and those are big acne triggers.
So what I say is, if you have a water softening system like those are expensive. Yeah. And so sometimes you can figure out is this water softener connected to all the sinks and showers in my home? Is it connected to hot and cold water. And if could you experiment? You could. Or maybe just try putting a filter like an actual filter on the showerhead to kind of get some of that salt out.
But if you're in a place where you're investing into something and you're like, should I get a softener? Don't just get it like a pull home filtration system that will actually filter out contaminants as well.
So and are there any other triggers that we've missed. Anything else that you want to make sure that people know about of what could be, you know, triggering acne for them?
I think another important piece is, you know, looking at our detox pathways, because if we can support our body in any way, we should. And so detox pathways, do you want to go into this? Because I feel like this might be your thing, but like eating, pooping, sweating, lymphatic like all of those. And then I can kind of give you some of the things that I like to do on a daily basis.
Yeah, completely. I mean, one thing that I do just want to emphasize is you're saying all of the things that we talk about in functional medicine, right? And in on at first glance, it can feel really overwhelming sometimes for women to hear like, this is so much that I'm supposed to do because I'm supposed to make sure my detox pathways are good, I'm supposed to eat healthy, I'm supposed to exercise, I'm supposed to not be too stressed.
I'm supposed to sleep well, I'm supposed to have a healthy diet, but I really want to. I want to simplify it, to say
It is a handful of things. It is a handful of things. But I just mentioned that we have to do right. But what I want to be drilled into our minds is that when we do that handful of things, those are the same things that we would do for healthy skin, for healthy periods, for fertility, for perimenopause and menopause, transition to prevent dementia, to prevent heart attack, to prevent cancer, to prevent fatigue.
Like I can make a way longer list of things that we prevent. That that list is way longer than the list of things that I'm asking people to do. The problem is, and I will shout this from the rooftops, the problem is our culture has poisoned it. The culture makes it seem like those things are so much.
These aren't things that should be hard. This is just how we should be living. Yeah, right. I agree, we should go to bed and then go to sleep. Yeah, we should wake up and see the sun like. Yeah, yeah. It only seems hard because our culture has made it seem so odd to wake up and see the sun or to eat broccoli.
And, you know, one of the things that I tell people to do is to eat vegetables with every meal. And a lot of people are like, what? Bread, breakfast, vegetables? Like, who made that weird? Like, why is that weird? Made it normal to eat donuts and coffee. That's exactly right. So I just want to draw attention to that before we go down detoxes.
Yes, it's a lot, but it's the things that should be normal and natural. And the only reason it's hard is because we're bucking culture. Yeah. So when we talk about detox, it is what you just mentioned. There's 5 or 6 main things that you think about sweat, lymphatics, which are like full body range of movement. I think about cactus arms, you know, arms above your head, legs apart instead of crossed like mine are right now.
Oh, right. Because we you're doing it exactly. Cross your arms, cross your legs, punch up into a little ball. It's terrible for a lymphatics. It's very fight or flight. We hunch our shoulders. We curl up in a ball. Right. That you're just scratching me. Me too. Me too. But so? So when we're thinking about supporting detoxification pathways, we want to spend a little bit of time through the day just doing the opposite of that.
Can we stick with our legs just briefly apart? Can we open our arms? Can we open our chest? Can we lower our shoulders. So rebounding and things like that. Dry brushing can be dry brushing. Yes. Yes. Pooping having healthy. Bladder habits and peeing frequently, having deep restorative breaths, making sure that our air pollution, that that air pollution isn't a problem for our airways.
And then sleep is one that's kind of a it's a detox pathway for our brain. It's not technically detoxifying. I mean, it technically is. It's washing away waste products from the brain. So into that right now, I learned that and I was like, wow, our bodies are so cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll tell you. I have a couple tips because you were talking about hydration.
And that is one thing. If you work in clinic and you're back to back to back, you just don't do. And so if you have a busy schedule and you just find yourself not drinking enough water, I set alarms on my phone that go off every ten minutes to remind me to drink water, because that's the one I fall short on, and it seems like the easiest one.
But I just don't get enough water. And so there are simple ways that you. Yes, it can feel overwhelming, but you, you just make them a part of your routine and it gets easier. Yeah for sure I love that. Is there. Do you ever use supplements for detox? I know this question comes up so much and I will say I don't have the science per se to back this up, but I often get patients who just feel like their bodies are stuck and holding on to things.
And it's usually a series of symptoms that go along. And acne is one of them. Oily skin, constipation, fatigue, brain fog. Like it feels like everything in their body just slows down. Yeah. And so we do talk about the detox pathways and looking at what they're already doing, what we can do more. But that's where sometimes I do feel like some supplements and liver support can be really helpful.
Yeah, I don't know if you use that specifically for acne or if you're just doing the routine pathways. Yeah, I am still seeing the skin clear up, is my question. Totally. I kind of like it's a little outside of my scope of practice to completely do that, but on my own journey, like whenever I have a suggestion, I'll say from me, your friend Mallory, not from Mallory at the institution.
But yeah, I like doing binders that are but natural, like in foods. So there are certain things like,
actually, I just started drinking milk thistle tea.
It's okay. What do you think about that one? That's. I like milk thistle and dandelion. Okay. Those ones are the ones that really get in the liver. I also think broccoli is a really wonderful I mean, yes, ginger tumeric.
Like, you can get tumeric. I think eating,
like turmeric powder probably doesn't do much for us. I don't I haven't been able to find that answer. So if someone knows, let me know. But I don't think once it's all decorated and dried and everything and you're adding it to a curry dish and you take such a small portion, I'm not sure it's not harming.
I mean, I cook turmeric all the time, but I think eating the turmeric root, eating some tea with ginger and turmeric in it, I think can help. That's really cool. Yeah. So recently I found out that I have mold. Yeah. And anyways, so I'm going down this rabbit hole of learning like okay, what is the soft binders for mold and for certain molds.
The I think her name is Doctor Jill. Yeah. She was saying that,
foods high in beta carotene are really helpful for certain molds, and I'm like, well, beta carotene has a lot of vitamin D, so I wonder if that would be good for acne. So I'm like, yeah, I mean, fiber, we talk about fiber. It's kind of simple.
But yeah, yeah, it's all I mean, it goes back to what we were saying before is that you fix the body and you fix the body, right? Yeah. You do the things to fix one part of the body. It's the immune system. It's inflammation. It's stress. It's got you do the things to fix the body and it fixes all the parts of the body and the skin.
And I think you've been able to kind of come at it from a point of just skin. But I absolutely would guess that a lot of your patients say, hey, by the way, my energy's better or my hair is, but my or my gut is better. That's my goal. Like I want yes, I want you to come in and have clear skin, but I also want you to feel better because I know most of us are below where we want to be when it comes to energy and mood and fatigue and all of those things.
I mean, I hear day in and day out, it's actually, like, it's kind of sad how we all kind of feel like crap,
I have so many clients who are so scared of getting off birth control, and I'm never to push that.
But I'm like, look, you should know there are all these other types of ways that you can have birth control. You know, we're just not given and all the education. And so I usually tell a client like before you even think about booking with me or starting the program, if you want to get off birth control, do it now.
Yeah. Do it now. So if yes, if you have a bad flare, I'm able to see it and treat it and help you through it, you know? So I love hearing that of just like I feel like a different person now for control. I feel so much better. Thank you for this. Or I've maybe lost a little bit of weight or I feel more energy.
I'm like, oh my God, that's like, I love that so much. Yeah. My favorite. Well, I don't want to leave out skincare because I think that we've talked about what not to use. But obviously you have a product line and you have strong opinions about what people do use on their skin, especially when talking about that cell turnover.
So tell us, walk us through what things we should know about the products we're using on our
skin, and what type of products we should be using. Yeah, man, there's so many points that I could hit on this. I think I want people to know that they're when it comes to skincare and formulation, they're not all created equally, for instance.
So I think it's important to have a really good foundation of, you know, cleansing the skin, moisturizing it. If you're using something like an alpha hydroxy acid or an exfoliant, you have to protect your skin from the sun. So having a sunscreen, that's kind of the foundation. So I have obviously my product line, I call it the basic bundle.
I say that's where everyone pretty much starts. Yeah. And then when it comes to choosing an exfoliant for maybe your concern is acne, maybe your concern is I don't have any acne anymore, I have scarring or I have melasma, or there's all of these different skin conditions that can really benefit from the exfoliation aspect of that. That's where I get to play around with, well, which one really is right for you?
Because they all have amazing benefits. And the cool thing about alpha hydroxy acids is they're all naturally derived.
One of my favorites is
Mandela acid. It's derived from almonds. And it has such great benefits for inflammation, for redness if you've got sensitive skin it's great. And so
the fun thing is I get to choose which one's right for you and to really help you navigate how often to use it, because that's also hard.
But I find that, you know, on my Instagram a lot, people will say, well, you know, I found The ordinary has a mandela acid. And so you really can't compare products that you can get over the counter at something like Sephora or Ulta or something to professional strength skincare. Professional strength skin skincare has different PH’s different formulas,
different derivatives.
You're actually working with labs who need to know that you're a licensed professional to be able to help you with this product and develop it and get it out to the public, but and higher concentrations too, right? Exactly. Yeah. Percentages are different. So I don't just allow anyone to be able to buy these acids off my
website because you might fry your face, you know, so it needs professional guidance on how to use it.
Yeah. Okay. So what are the you mentioned it before, but I want to kind of break this down so people can say like okay yeah yeah yeah like that was all great. But like what do I do about my acne. So the first option is of course to schedule a consultation with you. But if they're starting from home, one of the first things is to cut out skincare products that may be poor clogging, clogging.
Yep, that is really hard for me. I don't know how that is a struggle for me to say like so to cut out products that are poor clogging. Yeah, we're going to decrease inflammation through decreasing inflammatory foods and trying to prioritize protein, vegetables, non inflammatory foods, eating foods that what did you how did you say
God given foods. Yeah. God given food. Yeah. Eating God given foods. And, making sure that we're doing something for our stress, especially if we're noticing that these flares are coming around. Stress. Yep. Watching our poop, making sure that we're we're doing the things to take good care of our gut.
And then the skincare that everyone can do would be some sort of cleanser once or twice a day. I mean, I think you should. I really think it's important because, you know, you're probably wearing makeup. I mean, not everyone, but most women wear a touch of makeup, and it's important to cleanse it off and get your skin clean for the day and night.
And yeah, and then moving on to moisturizer, like everyone should have a moisturizer. Everyone. And then I, I really I'm a big believer in sunscreen every day, even if you're not using something that it is exfoliating. I mean, there's so much research that supports that the sun is, you know, love our vitamin D. I'm not against the sun.
I'm actually very pro sun when it comes to an eye situation. There are some that will be like avoid the window and I'm not that way. I'm like, we need vitamin D, but having some amount of protection to prevent fine lines and wrinkles and pigment and all of the fun things the sun can do damage on our skin.
It also degrades collagen. So having a physical sunscreen is really important to me. Yeah, I'm a I love the mineral sunscreen, so that's what I'm all about. Yeah. And then also you mentioned earlier having some sort of exfoliant routine. Yeah. And that is where it gets a little more customized. Yep. It actually gets very tricky because the girl that we were talking about in the beginning, who has perfect skin like sleeps in the makeup and has perfect skin, I don't necessarily think she has to exfoliate because her body is doing it naturally for her, but for anyone that has texture, blackheads, rosacea, like any of the skin conditions, they all stem from that imbalance
in cell turnover. And so I hear it day in and day out. Like I just can't figure out, you know what exfoliant I need. I'm just trying and trying on my own and I cannot figure it out. So that's where really having the expert you need the expert you. I really don't think that you can do it on your own.
It's it's very challenging. The balance between. It's a very fine line between too much and not enough. It's it's very fun to figure out. Yeah. And are you, are you using much of the benzoyl peroxide or the over-the-counter? Yeah. I'm, I do like violet peroxide. I feel like after everything that was put out this year with the benzoyl peroxide study of it having benzene scared so many people away on it.
But if you really look at that study and look at what it says, they put benzoyl peroxide in an oven and oxidized it. Yeah, like, well, there's benzene in hairspray. So I'm like, I, I'm a clean girl. I like the clean ingredients. I'm all about staying away from the bad stuff. But that study just wasn't accurate. I think if you can take anything away from that study, it's really like keep your skincare in a cool, dry place.
And whenever I put someone on benzoyl peroxide, which is in my acne gel, I'm very upfront with like, you cannot go outside, you need to wash this off. It's something you only apply at night time. You're not sweating in it, you're not working on it. There's there's just ways to use it the right way and to take the information from that study and apply it.
But yeah, I like benzoyl peroxide. I see it do some pretty amazing things for pore size and oil, and its main
mechanism is bringing oxygen to the poor. So it's the biggest piece in the puzzle for the bacteria part of acne. And it's changed my skin for the best. So I like benzoyl peroxide. I know it's up in the air for some people.
Yeah. What about retinol? So that's another one that comes up a lot more for anti-aging, but also in the acne. Yeah. So retinol does the same exact things as the alpha hydroxy acids where it's stimulating that cell turnover. It's just a different derivative of vitamin A and retinoid. So I will say the retinol is a more powerful strong exfoliant.
Yeah. Which is right for the right person. But it's not right for everyone. And so that one's tricky. It's it's a silent but deadly type of exfoliation. So I yes, I have a vitamin A and a retinol in my line, but it's for the right person at the right time. Yeah. It's also kind of a gray area because, you know, they say not to use it while pregnant or breastfeeding.
And so sometimes I run into issues with, with that where clients will go through the program, get clear and then they're like, I want to start a family, you know, and maybe this is a gray area I'm not comfortable with. And so I love the other alpha hydroxy acids because you don't have to stop them while you're pregnant or breastfeeding.
Yeah. Yeah. It's really good to know. Yeah. Because that can flare to that can flare acne for some people. Well I think this has been amazing. I'm already planning to like okay after this episode airs I got to go back and listen to it myself. Oh to make notes for myself because this is it's all such good advice.
Is there anything you think we've missed in this important conversation about acne? I think anything that I feel like we hit it really good. Yeah. I think it's most important to know when you have acne, like you're not alone. And I think there's so many people out there. It's so sad to me. Like it actually breaks my heart of like, what am I doing to myself to cause this, you know, it's like you, you can go through all of the skin anxiety, especially with acne.
You go through phases, like I've said, of your skin being really good and then it being really bad and just so frustrating because you have no idea. You have no idea. Yes. And people all the time we freak out because we're like, what did I do? What did I change? You know? And so I just want people really to know that it's not one thing.
It's so many things and that there are solutions. You're not in it alone. You don't have to go on the birth control on the Accutane and do all the things. Are so many other options out there for you. And you're still beautiful, you know, like you're still an amazing person and there's so much more to you than your skin.
Yeah, but it does. I will say it does feel good to look in the mirror and just feel your best. Yeah. And that's really my passion, is I feel like I see this transformation in my clients, and I know that they're out there in the world being their best self when they feel their best. And I know it's cheesy, but I think that it kind of change the world in a small way.
So it's my life passion. I love that, I love that I think that for better or for worse, we do care about what we look like, and I don't think it's all for the worse. You know? I know, I mean, literally confident in your skin is is a just fine. It's just fine to want that. And, I do think it's reflective of other ways, you know, other health.
And so it's, it's a good thing to want to feel like your skin is healthy and clear and strong and resilient and all of the things that we want for ourselves. You totally. Yeah. Yep. Well, thank you so much for being on. I have loved this conversation. Tell people where they can find you because the good news is you're available virtually.
So yeah, yeah. Tell us, tell us a little bit about your company and about where people can find you and and how that works. Yeah. So obviously I have a clinic here in Murray, Utah that you can come and see me at, but my passion is treating clients virtually. I treat clients all over the United States and Canada, which is just so mindblowing to me.
But it really comes down to like the daily habits, rituals, and routines that you make changes to that can get you clear skin so you don't need the fancy treatments. Like I kind of told people so you can find me on Instagram at Mallory Miles. And then my website is M Skin clinic.com. Awesome. Yeah. And we'll include those so people can find it.
But thank you again for being here. This has been really, really helpful. Cool.
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